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 Post subject: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Oslo Norway
Hello
I am really into sushi so I own 3 yanagibas. I can sharpen all my normal double bevel knives good enough for my use. I get all my double bevel knives hair shawing sharp.
My record is to get one of my carbon knife hair shawing sharp with a 800# stone. I know that this is not very impressing since I have seen people on youtube doing the same with much lower grit. But when I started sharpening I had to use a lot of time on a 6000 # grit stone to achive the same sharpness so I have relative to my skill at start, I have improvend a lot.

But Yanagibas is a different topic. I really struggle to get this extrem thin egdes sharp. I struggle a lot to get rid of burrs and wire egdes. Even a 6000# grit stone is not fine enough. First when I use my balsa strop with some 0.5 compound on my knives get sharp enough and almost all the burr and wire egde is gone. But when I check the whole edge there is some small spot (around 4 mm) with less sharpness.

Should it be difficult to get a good result with these knives?
Do anybody have tips on how to sharpen such a knife?

(I have ask this question before, but that was before I tried)



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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Can you describe what your sharpening routine is? What stones do you use? How much do you work on the face and how much on the back? What kind of knives do you own?



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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:27 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 782
You can get a good edge on a yanagi with a 1k if you wanted so your 6k is more than fine enough. I personally finish most single bevels between 3-6k.

If your having burr trouble it could be caused by not polishing the back enough. It's a lot of hard steel on the back and it needs to be polished as well as the front bevel.

Something not often talked about is the fact that you can't just sharpen it flat and expect the edge to hold-up. Most tend to convex the edge and over time this makes the edge thick and difficult to sharpen. I found using a microbevel provides a much longer lasting and better cutting edge that remains thin and needs less actual sharpening because you can tune up the microbevel with a fine stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:51 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Oslo Norway
chefknivestogo wrote:Can you describe what your sharpening routine is? What stones do you use? How much do you work on the face and how much on the back? What kind of knives do you own?

I am currently using a 1000 #, glass stone and a 6000# king and a balsa strop with some boron paste.

I work 99% time on the face since the guy at japaneseknifeimport says that you should not take more than 1-2 strokes on the back at a high grit during a sharpening.
My yanagiba is of unknow origon from ebay. Bought most for training. I think it is a carbon knife (I have bought a lot of stuff from cktg, but not a yanagiba).



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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:20 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Oslo Norway
And is it correct to sharpen like this:

When sharpen the shinogi-line I push my fingers right above it and sharpen.
When sharpen the egde i push mi finger as close to the egde as possible and sharpen.



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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 250
Location: NE
This topic answers a few questions from your suji/yanagi knife recommendation. ;)

The wire edge must be removed before progressing to the next stone. You are correct that most the sharpening is done on the face side. A microbevel may be needed and is applied only to the face side. Jason is also correct that the backside must be sharpened thoroughly. Enough to remove the wire edge.

The video on shinogi line sharpening from JKI is a good to understand how it should feel when sharpening, pushing the shinogi line up the knife, remember to use light pressure. It is correct to move your fingers to the edge to focus contact with the stone along the cutting edge.

As you continue to practice you'll develop better feel and response to thinning and sharpening.

When sharpening the backside only light pressure is used and the focus is applied to the spine. Over-sharpening the edge on the backside will deform the geometry of the yanagiba and the edge will be too thin making it brittle and weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:54 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 782
I would say you also need more stones. 1k to 6k on a single bevel is much too large of a jump.


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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Oslo Norway
norway wrote:And is it correct to sharpen like this:

When sharpen the shinogi-line I push my fingers right above it and sharpen.
When sharpen the egde i push mi finger as close to the edge as possible and sharpen.


I have now tried a little more on my cheap ebay bought 50$ training yanagiba.
What I have started to do is that when I sharpen the egde, I push my fingers on the edge. But at the same time I lift the knife 1-2 mm.
That gives a bevel with one angle from the shinogi-line down to the edge, and a little higher angle at the egde.
After that I put on an microbevel with a very large angle (25-30 deg).

What I found is that when I have a slight higer angle at the egde, I got the burr much faster.

I have tried to make a picture on how I think my yanagiba profile should look like.

Also plan to even out the transition between the main and secondary edge to get a more convex bevel.

Is this the correct way to go?


Image



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 Post subject: Re: Sharpen a Yanagiba. Extreme difficult
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 250
Location: NE
I think you have the right idea.

When sharpening a yanagiba, the geometry of the face side must be maintained each sharpening session. The shinogi line is the first part to be sharpened. I like to start at the heel and work up to the tip.
The blade road, also secondary bevel, is the next part to be sharpened. Again, I like to start at the heel and work up to the tip.
The edge is the last section to be sharpened. I like to begin at the tip of the knife and work to the heel. Also a microbevel can be added too. I use the swipe method for a microbevel to keep the edge even.

You are correct to blend the bevels together. The shinogi line, blade road, and edge will look like one edge although it is truly 3 bevels. This will give you the convex blade from the shinogi line down to the microbevel.

For yanagi sharpening remember to use light pressure. It will help you feel what the knife is doing and you will have better feedback.

Here is a video with a brief explanation of the sharpening sequence.

Credit goes to chubo knives on this one.


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