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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:31 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:34 pm
Posts: 164
Try not using so many stones and refining to such an extent. Draw a burr on 1k, then simply strop a few times at roughly 5k. 10-15 degrees per side. Should actually make a difference in edge retention.



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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:48 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:34 pm
Posts: 164
I replied at first without reading everything...
You are saying your artifex should hold up to a task a strait esge razor would excel at, bc its made of the same steel.. lets flip it around.. take your strait edge razor, sharpened at 4* per side, and dice a few carrots,onions, and slice a pot roast. Tell me how it performs! You are trying to take a kitchen knife at shaving razor angles, and expect a stupidly thin edge to take the abuse of cuttingboard impact and harf foods. Take a step back bud. I'm not a fan of an artifex by anymeans, by lets be realistic.



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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:49 am 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 6:39 pm
Posts: 258
Well lets take a couple steps back.

-What is the angle/finish on the knife right now?

-Next lets stop comparing a large convex grind to a flat grind. Convex grinds at 10dps per side will be much steeper when you measure what the angle at the edge of the edge is. MUCH steeper.

-Do you have some pictures of the damage?

-I have a hard time believing that some soft plastic put a 1/2mm ding in any edge even at 7-10dps , irregardless of finish , 1k or 100k.....

-Full fledged production knives can sometimes see some problems , just the nature of the beast , none of my knives stay stock long enough to matter. Even if there were heat treatment issues from factory grinding , you have removed enough material that it shouldn't matter. Although im skeptical that there was a problem in the first place... Knives need to get very hot in order to mess up the heat treat.

-Richmond knives are known for coming a touch on the thick side. I think this allows users to tailor the knives for their own personal uses , you can always take off metal , but you can never put it back.



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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4721
First, I didn't degrade myself or this argument with my comments. Next, I didn't ask you to "prove it". I basically said I'd have to see it to believe it.

So are you saying you have or have tried a 10 degree inclusive apex on other kitchen knives that have performed well? If not why would you expect it of the Artifex and why are we having this discussion. I'm not a fan of the Artifex either but for other reasons.

You find my tag ironic right now but I'm not saying it can't be done. Some day it may very well be done but I am saying you didn't do it with what you have to work with at this time.


Last edited by Jeff B on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 328
Location: NE
Hello Hunter,

The Tanaka Ginsanko is very hard and fairly good edge retention. I keep it sharpened very thin ~20* inclusive with a microbevel. The edge definitly chips before it folds.

FWIW 20* inclusive is very thin for most metals and will require a micro bevel. Also the type of cutting board used may require adjustment of the microbevel edge. Polyethylene boards are terribly abusive on cutlery. Wood is better, and Sani-Tuff mats are the best for edge retention.

I am not surprised the AEBL failed at 10* inclusive. Failure would be guaranteed without a microbevel. Even if the plastic was an anomaly, the primary edge (microbevel) should not fail at 20*. Maybe a bad batch? I can relate to what you described as soft mushy steel, normally a characteristic of cheap, poorly treated, low carbon steel. AEBL does not have enough carbon to be what I would consider a high carbon steel. It is however, a great value for the price, giving consumers an affordable alternative to Cutco.

I think you will be pleased with tha Tanaka. AEBL contains only .67 % carbon whereas the Ginsanko should contain at minimum .95% carbon. Put head to head, the feeling when sharpening will be immediately noticed. The hagane will be much more wear resistant than AEBL and feedback will be pleasant.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:22 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 1738
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
.....mmmmm.......10 degrees inclusive......

.....I need some of that good sh*t being smoked in this thread.....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:32 am 
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Sorry Rook, think it's all been smoked. :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Artifex performance issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7887
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Ok, I thought this would be fun but it's just getting weird. Seems like there is something else going on besides the performance of my knife.

So, to answer your original question directly: Will the Tanaka Ginsans, specifically the 210mm Gyuto have an appropriate heat treat and adequate performance? (ref. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagi21gy.html).

Given what I know about your use habits and sharpening regimen the answer is no.

But thanks for the debate. I think I learned some stuff.



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