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 Post subject: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:24 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:17 am
Posts: 6
So for the past 7 years ( i know a long time) i have been just looking and looking for a new knife. I am a professional in the industry and i just want to make the right investment. I have been considering Takedas i have been staring at them for the past few weeks now. Any tips on buying takedas? I have read all the reviews and seems like a no brainer just want to see if there is anything similar to what im looking for.

1. Are you right handed?Yes
2. What type of knife are you interested in? open, mainly a chefs knife, gyuto,
3. What size knife are you looking for?240mm
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? trying to break away from stainless
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? i have used mostly western
6. How much did you want to spend?400 max no more
7. Do you know how to sharpen? My skills are about a 7


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Takeda's are nice. I don't know how line knife friendly they are. Very thin edges, and carbon. However, I do know some people who use them on the line. His stock gyuto profile is also VERY wide.

If all of that sounds like something you're okay with....by all means, get one. I really like his knives.

The Goko is a great, stainless clad carbon core, narrower profile. Awesome knife for the money.

Kikuichi TKC is a great, great knife....I'll call it stainless, but it performs like a carbon in a lot of ways. Easy to sharpen, holds a great edge, I hear a great edge geometry for a line knife, western handled which you're used to.

In truth, there are a lot of really good knives in that price range.

If you like the Takeda, and it's aspects align with what you want in a knife....I wouldn't hesitate to get one.



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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:30 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 2291
What Adam said. I understand the Takedas are very thin and may not wear the work day well. If you feel comfortable with them, they have bulletproof reputations.


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
Posts: 427
Probably a good idea to get a stainless clad carbon knife instead of a 100 percent carbon knife. I use the Kohetsu 240 in a pro kitchen...granted I'm not using it hours on end, it's held up well.

I would personally invest in a lower quality knife for pro use and keep the fine stuff at home...The 80-100$ Richmond knives would be really good for line use...and by really good I mean the edges are strong and thin enough to cut well beyond the usual Wustoff,GLobal type blades.

A 210 Gyuto would be good for tight quarters. But too each his own. What knife are you planning to upgrade from?

If you cut lots and lots of onions then a taller blade height would be a big advantage. If you are doing a mixed variety then a shallower blade height would not be as big of deal.

Consider part of the knife budget sharpening stones...keeping the edge screaming is what makes having a good knife in the first place so fun. I would suggest the Kohetsu 240 Gyuto for value and performance. The Takeda might be or might not be what you are looking for. It's a very tall blade. Do you chop a lot? If so the extra cost of the Takeda style blade could be heaven.

You don't have to spend 400$ to get a great knife.


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:10 pm
Posts: 224
I have also really been looking at takedas and think whenever I make my next knife purchase thats what i'll be getting. Also in that price range is the masakage koishi which is also AS steel. It is a thicker knife than the takedas while still being very thin behind the edge and is stainless clad. It is also a little shorter. I own the 210 and use it as my main knife on the line every day. That being said if its the takeda thats in your heart go for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:34 am 
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SELSEROAD <> Be very clear, in that, purchasing a Takeda Gyuto is analogous to purchasing a 200mm quasi-cleaver with a 40mm pointed tip tacked on the end of it. You have to WANT a VERY VERY TALL knife to buy a Takeda Gyuto. As for your question, "Any tips on buying takedas?", you can ask Mark to cherry pick the shortest, but it will still be stupid silly tall. That said... maybe you like working with cleavers, but I'm pretty sure you're used to a Western chefs knife. If so, the potential shock to your cutting style must not be ignored when considering a Takeda Gyuto.

While comparing and contrasting a Masakage<--link to the Takeda<--link, BBC stated, "It is also a little shorter." In fact, the Takeda is MUCH taller averaging around 58mm tall. These are two very different knives. IMO his Gyutos are way too tall, and his Sasanohas too short. That said, I am but one man, and Takedas are top sellers on the menu.

His AS takes a fantastic edge,..

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...and exhibited good retention even at acute angles, but there is this intangible about the feel of his Gyuto I dislike. Honestly, it is a conundrum to me as there is an undeniable magic when the knife is in hand, but as soon as I cut with it, I am underwhelmed. For me, I don't like the grind geometry, I don't like how it cuts food; it is laser thin, but has a fraction of the cutting power of thinner lighter knives like the Konosuke HD/W#2 or a Suisin IH, for example, and the Gyutos are RIDICULOUSLY tall. I'm simply not a fan of his Gyutos.

Even though our opinion on Takedas differ, ADAM MARR's post spoke many words of wisdom. We absolutely concur on the Kikuichi TKC<--link.

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As for Yo-handled knives, this has got to be my favorite. It is truly a perfect ITK profile extremely adept at rocking, pushing, pulling, walking, & machine gunning. The semi-stainless steel is the best of both worlds... especially ITK. The grind is consistent & functionally effective. F&F are well above average. I find the handle to be a bit small, but take that with a grain of salt as I have huge hands & I'm used to Wa's.

Umberto, raises some good points, as well. As I reference earlier, we don't know what you've used for 7 years... it does matter. No, you don't wanna replicate it, but you do have a style that has matured from its characteristics; those characteristics are pertinent.

He also recommends a stainless-clad blade of which will ease your maintenance requirements drastically. When you get in the shit and the weeds are overhead sometimes you just don't have time to wipe. A laminated blade helps a lot. Not to say if you get a full carbon or even a SS-clad one & it oxidizes too far in service you cant just polish it out afterward, but wiping a whole blade IS more time consuming. That said... the Takeda do come SS-clad<--link, and even the classics have a very sturdy Kurouchi that act like a SS-cladding.

Furthermore, he talks about overall budget & allocating properly for sharpening equipment. When he says, "You don't have to spend 400$ to get a great knife." He is absolutely, correct. You can get a lot of knife for less & still get yourself the sharpening equipment you need because your knife... any knife, will transform into a butter knife after a week ITK. This set<--link runs $190, allowing you $210 for a knife. The Goko<--link Adam suggests is well within this budget. The Kohetsu<--link Umberto suggests is within budget, as well. Though as much as I love the knife,..

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...I would not recommend it, or any laser, for most professional kitchens. I am not saying there are not professional environments in which lasers can't be utilized, but simply be aware they do not stand up well to abuse... by you or others. People often borrow others knives, usually w/o permission, and if they have no idea what they are dealing with, damage is likely. You get weeded and torque that edge a bit too much, damage is likely. On and on... you get the point, and though I need not digress, I will show you an example of what happens when someone borrows a knife w/o a clue as to what they're using. http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1281&hilit=kanji%20ID

Personally, I know so little about your cutting style or specific things you are looking for in a knife that it's really difficult to recommend a knife in good faith. Off the cuff & on the premise of my proposed budget allocation, I'd like to see you up the ante another $30, and procure a Kaneshige Anryu<--link. This is the blacksmith behind the Masakages BBC suggested.

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It's one of my most favorite knives on the menu; albeit no light-weight. That heft, still much lighter than the Germans you're presumably used to, helps with cutting power though. The geometry on the Aoniko is robust yet still it carries very small shoulders. This blade just falls through food, and is a looker, too... if you're into that kinda thing.

We really just know so little about where you are, what you like, and what you need.

Please advise...



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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:47 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:17 am
Posts: 6
Melampus,
Thank you so much in advance for being very very helpful. I have been looking for a new knife for years and its such a hard decision for me to make since i cant handle any of these knives.

I guess i can give you a little more information of my daily use. I currently do not do massive amounts of grueling amounts of prep work everyday at all. Im the night time sous haha so its mostly set up and minimal prep at night not to say i will never be doing grueling prep ever again this is just my current gig. I really am looking for a knife i can invest in and have for years to come. I want to be able to utilize this knife for muilti purpose use in the kithen. Everything from bruinoise onion, fine julienne scallion, and quarts upon quarts of mirepoix, and slicing duck breast for service. Looks aren't a big issue but I do love the rustic Japanese look on the knife.

As for what i have been using for the past few years have mainly been a wustoff 8.5 inch hollow ground and a 12 in wustoff slicer. These were purchased probably over 5 years ago. Is there anything else i can add to help this process?


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:06 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 625
Location: Philippines
get the sasanoha if you really want a takeda and not have a very very tall gyuto


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2603
Another knife with similar characteristics to the Anryu Hammered Gyuto is the Masakage Yuki. The Yuki 210 Gyutos: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayugy21.html are usually a little oversized. Mine is about 218 on the edge and the other sample I've measured was about 217mm. If you want to see some photos, including a choil/heel shot check out this thread: masakage-yuki-210-gyuoto-larger-pics-t2122.html.

Both the Anryu and the Masakages have a curved choil/neck design with a little more length into the handle, which I find extremely comfortable when using a pinch grip. I can apply Melampus' comments to the feel of the Yuki as well. I have nowhere near the experience of Melampus, but I'm finding that I really like middle weight Gyutos. These knives are just a delight to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new knife BAD!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Confused yet :?:



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