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 Post subject: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:40 am 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Mark,

Thank for pointing me to the forum. Now I have one more question about sharpening CPM-154, ZDP, cowry-x.

In one of the discussion, it seems people could get sharp edge using diamond grit only!

Is the 4pc Glass stoen Set 500x, 1k, 4k, 8k suitable for these steels CPM-154, ZDP, cowry-x?

If I were to buy a stone holder for Shapton 4 pcs set, which is best better 1) Universal stone holder or 2) Naniwa Sink Bridge?

Thank you
kim



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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:41 am 
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shapton glass stones will sharpen most hard kitchen knife steels.



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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:50 am 
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Kim, which stone holder might depend on whether you want to sharpen over your kitchen sink or on the counter. You could use the universal holder over the sink as well, but you would need to build some kind of sink bridge to put in on.

I use the universal holder on my kitchen counter with some non porous grippy shelf liner underneath. I wet my stones as I go with a spray bottle. This works great with my Shapton GS stones, since they're truly splash n go.

Concerning the stones, the Shapton Glass stones are probably your best bet outside of something like Atoma diamond plates for these more wear resistant steels. If you're not taking off a lot of metal (changing bevel angles drastically, thinning behind the edge, fixing chips, etc.) the Shaptons might take a little longer, but they'll get the job done just fine - especially if you don't let the knives get too dull between sharpenings.

Other, more experienced sharpeners will certainly chime in here with their collective wisdom.

Edit - as I said, Mark posted while I was posting :-).


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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
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When it comes to sharpening different steels the only thing that will cause issue is when the vanadium content starts to climb above 4%. Above 4% the vanadium carbides become a majority in the steel matrix adding great wear resistance to the steel. With most stainless steels the high Chromium content forms Chromium carbides and these don't cause as much of a issue because they are much softer (66-68 Rockwell) while vanadium carbides (80+) are too hard for the abrasive found in a lot of stones.

In the case of the steels mentioned just about any stone will work.


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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:21 pm 

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 pm
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i just got my shapton glass for my EP and they cut my zdp-189 and AEBL like butter !!!



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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:22 pm 

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My ZDP-189 just laughs at the Naniwa 500 and the Shapton Pro 2000. The only thing that makes a dent when trying to alter the bevel or even restore the edge is diamond. Personally, I don't like these super hard steels. I first saw ZDP-189 at the Blade Show around 2000 in Atlanta. Two Japanese guys were showing some small folders made of this steel and they were cutting thick cardboard like butter and I never saw them try to re-sharpen. I was blown away by this steel. I bought a Spyderco Endura with ZDP and have hated that knife, ever since. I didn't like the big primary bevel and have wanted to flatten it, but until I got a 140 grit diamond, it was like trying to sharpen the knife on a piece of pine board.

I prefer Hitachi White or Blue or a good 62 HRC stainless to these PM steels with Rockwell close to 70 or up. Too hard to alter bevels or just touch up without diamond. I also prefer tradtional stones to diamond. It's whatever floats your boat, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Danvil wrote:My ZDP-189 just laughs at the Naniwa 500 and the Shapton Pro 2000. The only thing that makes a dent when trying to alter the bevel or even restore the edge is diamond. Personally, I don't like these super hard steels. I first saw ZDP-189 at the Blade Show around 2000 in Atlanta. Two Japanese guys were showing some small folders made of this steel and they were cutting thick cardboard like butter and I never saw them try to re-sharpen. I was blown away by this steel. I bought a Spyderco Endura with ZDP and have hated that knife, ever since. I didn't like the big primary bevel and have wanted to flatten it, but until I got a 140 grit diamond, it was like trying to sharpen the knife on a piece of pine board.

I prefer Hitachi White or Blue or a good 62 HRC stainless to these PM steels with Rockwell close to 70 or up. Too hard to alter bevels or just touch up without diamond. I also prefer tradtional stones to diamond. It's whatever floats your boat, I guess.



....Firstly, hallo & welcome to the forum Danvil. :)

Technology moves on, so must we.....

....or get stranded.....

Your call.....


:)



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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Your limiting factor with steels loaded with Vanadium Carbide is the physical size of the carbides. When the carbide size in the steel becomes larger than the abrasive that's when the stones tap out. Some of the 3rd gen steels are much finer grained and are getting quite sharp just with basic waterstones because the carbides are 1/2 - 1/3 the size of even 2nd gen steels.

Now with the steels you mentioned , no those stones will not have any issue at all. But I would add the 2k to that list. Along with a nanocloth strop and some 1u CBN. That way if you do run into something that gives you trouble you can dope the glasstone with the CBN. And don't forget a 140 atoma for lapping/repair/reprofile work.



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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 am 

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Nice thread necromancy Danvil!


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 Post subject: Re: sharpening hard steels with shaptons
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:26 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:15 pm
Posts: 32
154-cm is no match for Shapton GS. The 320 grit is effective for re-profiling.


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