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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2424
Good question - I don't recall the edge thickness on the Artifex 240 XT. Keep in mind that it's a very different animal than the regular 240, thinner or not. At 55mm tall, it's a much different knife in the hand and on the board. You'll probably either love it or hate it. I don't resonate with it AT ALL, but Mark sells plenty of this profile blade, so some people do love them.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:00 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 317
Keep in mind that heat treat can have a major impact on the same steel. It's hard to generalize based just on the type of steel.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2872
Location: CT
The Artifex does benefit from thinning. If you are in the US, drop me a PM or check out my forum under Tim Johnson. Lots of Artifex that I have converted/rehandled/thinned in there. With the western handled stuff, I prefer to thin with the handle removed and I can rehandle it or convert it to a wa. The thinning really changes how the knife performs!

The 240mm Artifex is in the KS profile, with a long flat spot and a curve near the tip. I feel it's more suited to push cuts/chopping than rocking.

I have had several knives HT by Peters (which HT's Lamsons AEB-L) and have worked with a TON of Artifex. I haven't run into any issues with the AEB-L from them and enjoy working with it, which is one of the few SS I say that about!


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:52 am 
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Listen to Tim (Taz). He knows his stuff. I still think the 240 will rock just fine with shorter stuff like parsley, chives, green onions, leeks, carrots, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:38 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1868
I have both the DP 240 and Artifex 240.

Out of the box the DP is thinner behind the edge. After thinning behind the edge, the Artifex sharpens easier, takes a better edge, retains its edge better, and out performs the DP.

A honing rod will not thin the behind the edge, you will need stones, or sand paper on a trued surface, or something like that. Stones are best.

The DP is the better rock cutter in my opinion. If rock cutting is just a tool in your tool belt, the Artifex can do it, but the DP is a bit more natural at the task.

If you want thinner than the DP out of the box similar profile, but a lateral move in steel quality, consider the Fujiwara FKM, http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Cedar - well put. If Mark did a carbon copy of the Fujiwara FKM in AEB-L - whoa!


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 302
Yeah lots of 240mm gyuots are in the 48 to 50mm height range. The artifex at 46.5 is a little on the low side, and the addict at 56mm is tall. Something around 50mm would be nice.

The fkm does seem pretty thin behind the edge, I guess the alternative would be the WA artifex but that's not in AEB-L and I did want to try an AEB-L blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:49 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1868
FYI the Wa-Artifex is made by Fujiwara using their proprietary steel. It is not AEB-L, but assuming the grind is more similar to a Fujiwara than the Artifex (I have not handled the Wa-Artifex so I do not know this to be the case), then that may be a very interesting compromise.

Does anyone have any experience with the Wa-Artifex that can comment on its grind?


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 Post subject: Re: Artifex 210 vs Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto thinness at the edge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 302
At this point I'm gravitating toward the WA Artifex. The AEB-L Artifex is a nice thought but as others have commented it is thick behind the edge and it really should be shipped thinner from the factory instead of us having to put in elbow grease or opt for a sharpening upgrade to bring out its full potential.

I cook often but I don't have massive amounts of veg prep like some so I'm quite sure the AUS-8 in the WA Artifex should hold up just fine.

Can someone verify if the WA Artifex is pretty thin behind the edge? And owners of the WA Artifex, how good is the edge holding? Also another thought, if I want a 50 mm tall blade I could just get the Fujiwara FKM 240. The WA Artifex has a lower profile and I'm thinking there might be something special about that. Does anyone know how that feels/cuts compared to the Fujiwara 240 FKM?


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 Post subject: Artifex Rock Chopping
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:00 pm
Posts: 37
I'm the one that posted the review this thread was branched from. Having come from using German style knives, I almost immediately noticed how the 240mm Artifex did *not* rock chop as I was used to. Since the belly is so small it feels like almost the entire blade hits the board at the same time when doing rocking. It works ok for really, really small stuff, but I can't easily rock chop a carrot for example.

No big deal though; I've adopted more of a push chop and it works well. It's a different knife with a different feel.

Brian.


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