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 Post subject: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
Anyone have any feedback on these? Nice quick look video on the 180 deba. I'm ready to add a deba and I'm pretty sure this is the one I want. I'm not positive on the size I should get. I live in the Midwest, so largest fish I will be using it on will be salmon from the Great Lakes., but only occasionally. Other occasional fish are northern pike and walleye. Most fishing I do is for largemouth bass and panfish, bluegill, crappie, perch. I am going to upgrade my fillet knife to the artifex. I will obviously use this exclusively on the perch, and probably on the bluegill. So my question is, should I get the 165 or the 180, and also any feedback on this series knife I'd like to hear it. The price doesn't bother me. I know there are others available for less money, with just as good steel, I really like the looks of this and would like to add one from this maker. I enjoy having all different makers. Only repeat I have is konosuke. I've never seen a recommendation for this knife and I guess this is an invitation to talk about it and help me decide on size.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:13 pm 
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RedWattle wrote:"So my question is, should I get the 165 or the 180"

I find the 165 to be too short to do much of anything on fish beyond the largemouth bass, panfish, bluegill, crappie, perch size you reference. I strongly recommend the 180. Personally, I prefer a 210 or 240 Miroshi Deba for salmon, but the 180 Hon Deba you reference is a minimum... for me.



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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
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This was what I was wondering. Which leads to another question I am pondering now. I have been using a fillet knife in fish since I was about 6 years old. I don't think switching knife types will make me any faster, but maybe it will , I'm open to that possibility. I have used a 150 petty before on panfish, which was fine I guess. I'm just ready to try a single bevel. Most fish I currently do are of the smaller type. So now my question is would it be worth it to get a 165 now for bass size and under and then in the spring when I will do salmon and walleye, get a 210 miorosha deba for larger tasks? My thought here is to avoid buying something for the sake of covering it all and it's not ideal for either. Thoughts ?


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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:55 pm 
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RED <> I grew up on the Ocean, and fishing will be a part of my life till the day I die. I, like you, had/have been using a western boning knife to filet fish with since childhood... mine was the 6" Forschner curved boning. I have been a professional cook then Chef, since I left the douchebag's (who calls himself a Father) house when I was 14. I have used that style knife for decades... literally, and it will always be an extension of me. I am faster cutting & more efficient regarding waste with a Forschner than I am with a Deba... any Deba, but it's close now & the gap will close even closer over the years. One of the things I enjoy about JK is they, to an extent, force you to relearn method. I had become enchanted with learning anew; and acclimating to a totally different mindset to cutlery. A Deba will not just make you faster by picking one up. I imagine it will slow you down considerably while you're acclimating; it's a dramatic difference. Thing is though it takes so much more acute an edge & retains it for so much longer than what you're used to. My favorite facet of the Deba is it's ability to penetrate scale; it is a powerful cutter. Along with it's heft & single bevel you will be receiving a whole new paradigm of feedback, and it is foreign... at least it was for me. It was very strange for me, but I chose to challenge myself with sticking with them & I now respect them for their positive attributes. I can still perfectly process through fish w/a $20 Forschner quicker... until it dulls.

The 165 is perfect for your bass & crappie; it is pushing it on the bluegills. It WILL work, but it will be pushing appropriateness as a 140 or 155 would fit a panfish better. As for your 165/180/210 conundrum, what can I say? I would never feel comfortable recommending someone buy a +/-$300 knife w/o even knowing if they resonate with said profile unless they're wealthy, they just don't care about money, they implicitly prefer buying premium product in the gamble they resonate because they're confident they can sell it to recoup their money if they dislike it, etc. Maybe it's none of my F-in business, but I usually recommend a tough as nails Tanaka Aogami (kurouchi<--links--> or kasumi), the Kaneshige W#3's<--link were great, or even the Kitaoka B#2<--link to get in the game at a lower price point... just to test the waters. Even a stainless Kiyotsuna<--link is an option to see if you even like a Hon-Deba. If you like it, keep it. If you like it & wanna upgrade, sell or gift it. If you hate it, sell it... that's just how my brain works.

As for a 210, a 210/240 Miroshi Deba is a salmon killer... period.. steaks or fillets. A 210 for the Walleyes.

Thinking about this, a bit more, I'd say pickup the 165 B#2 Tanaka Kurouchi<--link, and then down the road get yourself a really nice Miroshi Deba. Or like I said, sell the $80 Tanaka for $50-$60 & upgrade to a Deba of your choice. Another option is to put a nice handle on the Tanaka... if that's your thing - because the blades are tanks. Also, you can strip the Kurouchi & mirror polish it... if you like the bling.



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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
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Great response. Excellent feedback for me to consider. I am with you as far as I'm sure switching from the fillet it will slow me down. I am like you in the respects of I love learning new things and techniques, not just for the practicality of it, but also for "the art" of it. I hear you on not wanting to recommend to someone to lay out that kind of cash for something new when one can get the job done and test the waters with something cheaper. That is why in my original post I disclosed I'm ok with spending that much. I am by no means overly wealthy and am not considering that knife to be a show off. I am almost always cleaning fish by myself, unless my daughter is helping me. However, I do appreciate nice things. Part of my reasoning is if I really like the knife, the more I will want and or connect with it. I may not like the profile at first, in fact, I suspect I will be thinking about grabbing the fillet knife and just bang them out and be done with it. That said, I know I won't. I haven't found anything yet that I can't do. I'm not saying that as a boastful statement, what I mean by that is, I stick with it until I can. I'm sure you resonate with this because although I don't really know you, through reading your posts I suspect you are the same way. Thanks for sharing your wisdom on this topic as well as all the contributions you make to this forum. I happen to love it here;) this gives me some things to ponder before I click buy it now button. Lastly, for what it's worth, I'm sorry about whatever issues are there with your father. I've heard it said, "You can choose a lot of things in life, but you can't choose your parents." I happen to be one of the lucky ones and had a great relationship with both of them. Thanks again...


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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:46 pm 
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For what it's worth, I had not interpreted your comment as boastful. Yes, we share that tenacious spirit, and I'm one whom appreciates confidence. Also, thank you for your sentiment; it always surprises me to hear people appreciate my ramblings. Nonetheless, thank you... with respect.. with honor.

With that said, don't be sorry at my expense; he's no Father... of mine.



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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:58 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
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Just ordered the tanaka. On sale at $80 couldn't pass it up. I like the idea of gifting it. My daughter already stated she wants my honesuki. It will also let me test out the size.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:25 am 
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RED <> That was sort of my point; I'm no baller, but $80 to test the profile is just a no-brainer... for me. And don't mistake, that knife is no cheap beater. It has quite a respectable grind on it, the aogami takes a great edge, is no horror to deal with on the stones, keeps a good edge, and exhibits very good durability. That's another factor, too... learning to sharpen kata-ha. I'd hate to see you hurt a $350 knife... learning. Yes, the handle looks & feels very cheap, but sanding the lacquer finish off & treating with tung oil will fix that for cheap. It's a great bang-for-the-buck... and that is NOT a backhanded compliment.

None of my business, but I'm honestly glad you did it this way. I hate to see people spend a lot of hard earned money on something they just don't resonate with. That is why I originally lobbied for adding a classified section to the Forum. Let people trade things around at a discount so others can try things at a discount, and the original guy can buy a new knife looking for what they truly resonate with.



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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:20 am 
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I had a Tanaka Deba here (165mm I think) for a handle swap and it was very nicely done! Blade looked nice and straight, Ura was done nicely, blade road looked pretty even as well! I also got to see Aaron's Lefty Yanagiba and that grind was spectacular, too! Tanaka knows how to grind both the single and double stuff very well!


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 Post subject: Re: Kitaoka Damascus white #1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
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I have been wanting to make a custom wa handle but I couldn't see removing one from any of my current knives because I am happy with them all just the way they are. I am planning on using this the way it is and sometime over the winter I will re handle it regardless whether I keep it or not. I speculate it will be a keeper. I love this steel. I almost ordered the Nakiri too ;)


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