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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
Posts: 427
Okay...The million dollar question...How much for the stone? What about that natural Aoto we spoke about on the phone? How would it compare? Now I'm considering flip flopping from a natural sharpening set to a full Nubatama line up. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Metalmaster on-line vendor is having his private label stones made by the same people who produce Nubatama. I can't confirm it but if you visually look at his stones he offers varying degrees of hardness and the 1k stone have that same speckled appearance as the Nubatamas. Also as far as I know the only stones to offer the same grits with softer, medium and hard. The 1.5k stone offered from Metalmaster is about 40-50$ cheaper than the Nubatama. Sorry to go a bit off topic.

I just hope somebody who speaks Japanese can speak with the shop. Apparently the guy has terrible on-line customer service...you place an order and get it in a few weeks or more.


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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Posts: 258
Depends on the Aoto , I have an Aono Aoto and a Monzen Aoto , I like them both.
The Aono Aoto is the first time I have been surprised by an edge in awhile. Very nice 3k-5k edge.

I probably wouldn't get a full lineup of JNats except for collecting purposes. I would fill in the low end and mid range with Nubatamas , and then have a couple finishing stones as Jnats.

Ones of interest to you might be , Aono Aoto , Meara , Yaginoshima Asagi. Those three stones can produce a wide variety of edges to meet different needs.

The Aono can leave an edge in the 3k-5k range , great for kitchen knives , and Ken tells me popular with butchers.
The Meara is hard stone , great for a finer edge on a kitchen knife 6k-7k
The Yaginoshima Asagi is a very hard stone , that works well for kitchen knives that need to be very sharp , and will start preparing straight razors as well. I find this stone to play in the 10k-30k range. This is where working the mud really starts to show what a JNat can do.

Other stones you might consider would be the
Amakusa 600-800grit , I use this stone for converting from a synthetic scratch pattern to a Natural type scratch pattern. It is a hard stone and will last some time.
And theres the Igarashi and the Binsui , both are in the 2k-3k range , with the Binsui being the harder of the two. These lead great into an Aoto stone.

Naturals are fun to use , and collect. They require more skill to extract the most out of them but rewarding to use.



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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3343
Location: USA... mostly.
I had come to enjoy the Green Brick <--link. It offers a versatile edge with surprising polish. I will say though, I have been really trying lately to disconnect myself from intellectualizing the sharpening process as much as I inherently do. As I am testing out a lot of new knives & stones, consciously disconnecting from preconceived notion is paramount. It isn't the easiest of things to do. Anyhow, I'm liking the Naniwa Aotoshi less & less everytime I use it, or at least on hard steel. I had realized a consistent trait about it that I had sort of swept under the rug & worked around, but I let a respected colleague play around with it over a T-day collaboration & he reminded me of the annoyance of which i was blocking out. For me... and he apparently, it has a very "ridgy" surface drag. I do not mean a "not flat" surface. It has an abrasive characteristic that is inconsistent like a natural. I have one Jnat, in particular, that has these spots of what I have come to accept as "knots" in the surface. They are harder than the main substrate so the steel glides over them, but it's extends a weird feedback. On the Brick, it feels like the knots are consistent abrasive particles in the stone's matrix. Like I said, it gives me this "ridgy" feedback that is becoming more and more annoying, to me.

That said, I am coming to learn to accept it for what it is, to me. A GREAT value stone of which will last forever and create a versatile edge on hard & soft steels. An awesome community house stone in a Western kitchen, but not an upper echelon stone in the context of feedback. Again, a great performer for a $50 stone, but just not offering me the level of connection anymore that I'm looking for.



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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
Nice explanation of green brick characteristics Mel. I know exactly what you are referring to. I do think its a good value stone and like the polish it provides especially on German steel. Whenever I feel the "slight bumps in the road" are bothering me, I use the dmt and work it up a bit, splash slightly with water and usually gets better. More slurry helps the glide and polish. I don't have any experience with the nubatamba's but am planning on trying them out. How about the blue ? Any comments on it? I've never used it but have wondered...


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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Location: USA... mostly.
RED <> I have a Bamboo 1200, and I couldn’t be happier with it. Pretty soft for a 1200 which I like to sculpt with… I like to get into the contours. It builds immense mud that refines dramatically. It’s a brick, as well; I assume due to its softer nature. Leaves a great contrast on my laminated blades, and a usable edge in its own right but it is my typical starting point as I don’t let my blades get “dull”.

As for the “Blue”, do you mean a BBW or the 2k Blue “Aoto” <--link ? I have used the “Aoto” a few times, but it was a permasoaked stone that had was in poor shape from it; not enough for me to comment intelligently on. There was a big conversation between TAZ or Fanatic & BurkeCutlery some time back IIRC. I think the consensus, in that conversation, was the blue was suited more aptly to harder steels, but don’t quote me on it.

Furthermore, I have spoken to our stone Guru Ken Schwartz about it the synthetic blue “aoto”, and he told me that after speaking with the manufacturer, there is no natural stone material in its matrix.

That’s all I have.



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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
Thanks Mel. I was referring to the aoto. I have thought about this stone for some time, just never bought one to try. I think my next ones will be nub's.


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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Mel that is exactly what I didn't like about the Green Brick but you articulated it much better than I would have. It did a decent job on the knives I used it on but something just didn't feel right. It always seemed to developed this "gritty" feel to it. I finally sold it.



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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:05 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
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I have used a green brick enough that its only half of its original thickness and I am completely lost at this inconsistent feedback you guys are experiencing. For me its always been a silky smooth stone that polishes equipment beyond its stated grit.

The only strange things I have ever noticed is while lapping with a coarse diamond plate it will turn a lighter green in spots near the end on the stone.


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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Maybe a batch with some contaminants or something?



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 Post subject: Re: 2k stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:29 pm
Posts: 500
There was s thread a while back tagged stupid stone. about the grittiness of the green brick. I remember reading it and I don't remember if that was before I got mine or not, but I know I didn't relate to it. When I first got mine either I didn't notice it, it didn't bother me, or it has gotten worse as I get further into whittling it away. I still think its a good stone and would recommend using it for I like the end result. I haven't become disenchanted as yet. Looking at the stone I can see grayish black speckles on the side I am using from. The other three sides are a consistent green color. The stone is flat and freshly lapped. It's not contamination I've created. I think I'll lap the other side and see how long it takes for them to show up.


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