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 Post subject: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:27 am
Posts: 17
Hello, how many HRC does have the Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 steel used in Cronidur and Twin 1731 lines of knives? Someone on some forum said, that Cronidur is mostly between 58 - 60 HRC and so the 60 HRC somewhere published, is quite optimistic. The official Zwilling web says nothing, or I found nothing there. Any hints? Their "normal"steel is 56-57 HRC, I hope the Cronidur 30 is at least +2 HRC better.


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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:21 pm 
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You are going to have a hard time getting feedback on this steel as it is brand new. This is a "nitrogen hardened" steel, and the only other one that I know of yet is Vanax (35,75). Instead of using carbon they use nitrogen to make the steel hard. Granted, there is still "some" carbon in these steels (probably to actually make it steel and not just raw iron), there isn't enough carbon to make them hard enough for actual good blade steel.

After looking at some comparisons, you will have a knife that is extremely corrosion resistant and tough, but wear resistance might leave something to be desired. Here's a link to the data sheet.

http://www.progressivealloy.com/pdf/cronidur30.pdf

While nitrogen steel may have great applications I have yet to see knifemakers jumping on it, which indicates that it's probably lacking in some area or just simply overpriced for what it is at the moment. I could be totally wrong though, I'm actually searching for good feedback on these steels but it's pretty slim pickings so far.



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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:27 am
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So do I understand you well, that according to you the knife made of this steel is not a good replacement for my Twin Profection? Twin Profection is something made of their basic steel, Im looking for something better. Interresting replacement could be Bob Kramer Euro Carbon made of steel 52100 and hardened to 61 HRC.


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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:34 pm 
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I wonder if these steels are even able to be tested for hardness like our "normal" steels?



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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:27 am
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Why not?


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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:21 pm
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What exactly do you mean you are looking for something better? The blade geometry is an important role in getting the knife that suits you personally. As long as the steel is of good quality it really doesn't matter what type of steel. What sort of tasks will you be doing with the new knife?

Do you like the knife that you have now? Have you sharpened the knife yet? I think I would look at the Misono UX10. That particular knife is a great design for somebody transitioning from a heavy German knife to a thinner bladed japanese knife. It will have the weight and feel that is familiar of the Henkels.

If you are looking to upgrade on a tighter budget I think the Tojiro VG10 knives will impress you a lot. Many mainstream knife manufactures use nice steel and charge a premium for a pretty handle.

Does a better knife have to have a pretty handle? The Kramer knife is a mass marketed product. The handle is liked by many, not liked bt lots of people. Sometimes boring traditional handles and practical steel is actually "better."

The inexpensive Tojiro VG10 will probably blow you away. The Misono is not necessarily better at twice the price, it just has the more German like contours and feel. However the Tojiro is also somewhat traditional european in design with Japanese blade thinning.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:27 am
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The blade geometry is very imporatant for me, Im looking for something better with hrc 60+, chefs knife 200-220 mm. You have said it well - the best knife Im looking for is japaniese knife with German geometry and handle. From the Henckels it could be the Twin Cermax for $250 here in Europe. I had it in my hand and the handle is no problem for me, but Im worrying it could by chippy... :-( Wondering what people on youtube are doing with the zdp-189 steel - its looks like it is not chippy at all, so I dont know :-(

The Misono looks really well, and I think it looks similar to Shun Kaji Gyuto.


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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:32 am 
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maca02 wrote:Why not?


I dunno, if they have very little carbon, do they register the same on the HRC scale?!?! I simply don't know.



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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:46 am 
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Adam Marr wrote:
maca02 wrote:Why not?


I dunno, if they have very little carbon, do they register the same on the HRC scale?!?! I simply don't know.


They do test on hardness just fine, it doesn't change anything in that respect. You basically end up with a very corrosion resistant steel, and you can bet that all of these nitrogen steels are going to be powdered as well, so fine grain structure is to be expected (pending heat treat was good), ... and I'm not sure, so don't quote this, but I think nitrogen makes a finer grain as well compared to carbon, but that may be bad memory on my part.



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 Post subject: Re: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Cronidur 30 HRC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:48 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:27 am
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This is what ZKnives.com says about Cronidur 30:
Code: Select all
X30CrMoNi1-5-1 - Also Cronidur 30. Stainless steel, used in aero-space industry. Henckel uses it in their limited edition knives. For a while I didn't think much of Cronidur 30 steel, even though I knew it had Nitrogen in it. Later, one of the German knife guys pointed out that the amount of Nitrogen in the alloy is quite high 0.40% and more. So, overall the steel should exhibit properties of high carbon steel. Good wear resistance and relatively good toughness too ... ...


I also asked Zwilling to say their official information about it. The only information they publish is in some PDF, where they say, the Cronidur 30 steel is 58-60 HRC. I think all the pople/pages on the internet claims the Zwilling's knives made out of Cronidur 30 steel are of 60 HRC, I've nowhere seen anything else. But if they claim the steel has between 58-60 HRC, I'm in doubt they could aim to 60 HRC exactly, I'd rather say their knifes are about 59 HRC and the 60 HRC is just some kind of marketing

See PDF here on page 10


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