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 Post subject: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 545
I have the Atoma 140, Bamboo 150, Shapton Pro 5K and 8K, as well as a variety of diamond films in my kit. I still have and use the stock EP stones, but last night I just had it. Why do I continue to use these? Even after lapping them religiously with a DMT XXC they just suck. I now know the glory of the Shapton Pros and from what I have read on this august forum, the GS is even better.

So why do we always recommend that the noobs stick with the stock stones? (And I USED to be one of those voices.) Do we really feel that they are so hamfisted they will jack up a good stone in a heartbeat? We know that they are probably working on some dodgy knife that hasn't been sharpened since the Nixon administration, and even the EP 120 is a miserable cutter. Sitting at the bench for hours trying to establish the desired bevel is exasperating and disheartening. This is no way to make an aficianado and could be one reason, if you read the various forums, that quite a few EPs are gathering dust in the back of a closet. People get better results freehanding on a Chosera/Shapton/King than they do with the EP. Geez, I wonder why?

I now stand here and proclaim: EP users of the world, unite! No longer be handicapped with substandard abrasives that are ill-matched to the task at hand! Insist on premium stones from the outset of your sharpening endeavor!

Cheers,

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 6:39 pm
Posts: 258
The reason I recommend that beginners stick with the stock stuff for the first few knives is so that the don't wreck the knives or the stones. Run the stone of the tip and bring it back and you have a gouge or a chip. Get to vigorous with a 140 atoma and you take years of life away from a knife.

Im saying use the stock stuff for a year. But for the first 10 knives or so its not a bad idea.



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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:10 pm
Posts: 181
This beginner is in total agreement with Rick. Good tools give faster, better results for everyone. The last thing a beginner needs is having to work around the limitation of his tools. Without some level of early "success", beginners can easily get discouraged. Plus there is nothing more expensive than replacing "acceptable" tools with "better" tools.

For me, the Edge Pro Essential Set is the ideal starting set.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 1612
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Start off right....is that not the correct way.......

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 6:39 pm
Posts: 258
I'm not saying******



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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:43 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:36 am
Posts: 31
I'm a huge proponent of buying good tools the first time. But I don't have any problem with the stock stones. I have brought many knives back from the dead and did not feel it took long at all. Given the above comments, I should probably be excited about how much better the EP will be as soon as my glass Shaptons arrive. For now, ignorance is bliss and I continue to be amazed with just how sharp my knives are off the EP.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:10 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3333
Location: USA... mostly.
I read one out of every 50 EP threads I see as I can never imagine I could ever add anything to the conversation since I have no interest in jigs, but I'm glad I was able to read Rick's comic relief.

As for the stones, I see both sides of the argument. I tend to lean towards buying quality up front, and paying respect to the tools by employing them carefully, methodically, painstakingly...

You can phuck up a knife or a stone just as easily either way, high dollar/low dollar stones, but IF you don't screw them up while you're learning - you're ahead of the game. If you do, then you had to buy new stones anyhow... albeit a 15% premium.



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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 459
Here is my take on this one:
I sharpen many knives so wear and tear on the stones is an issue for me, especially the coarse stones, so I had come up with a system. (I mostly freehand by the way but still use the EP Pro every now and then, it excels at certain knives)

I can replace a stock stone for 8 dollars, a 400 Chosera EP stone with shipping costs to me in Canada is 45-50 bucks. A 400 chosera will last me a few months while the 8 dollar 220 EP will last 6 at least.

So with that in mind, if I have a difficult knife to do, needs a lot of work and I've decided to use the EP, to save wear on my premium stones (Chosera/Shapton) I do the hard labour with the stock stones, the 400 EP will get the knife very sharp, then I finish with my Shapton Glass or Pro stones.

I have sharpend many many knives using the EP Stones and they have worked for me.

I just think that if an indvidual cannot get a knife sharp with the EP stones, it may not necessarily be the stones, so tossing the EP stock stones away and picking up the Chosera's or Shaptons may not be the solution one seeks, it could lead to further frustration. Now if one can get the knives sharp with the EP stones........well by all means, go for it, upgrade, I did and will never regret it.

The EP Pro is a comfort tool for me, there have been times when I have some knives, always old knives that it just seems to take forever to sharpen free hand, the EP has never let me down when it comes to getting these difficult knives sharp again.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 545
Sailor,

I would be a fool to try to debate you, since your mastery is obvious and you sharpen as many knives in a day as I do in a year. I will, however, pull out the old 'time is money' spiel and refer you to this link that I found very interesting.
http://www.makeitsharp.com/blog/?p=16

Cheers,

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: Stock Edge Pro stones - why suffer?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:38 am 

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 122
I can use an Axe file and a screw driver to make any knife shave, but why? So much is dependent on what your trying to do and how long you want to spend at it. Sharpening is pretty easy once you figure it out. I don't care for the stock EP stones either, maybe if they were $100 each they would be better.. lol


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