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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 317
NickZac, you're describing an all-purpose knife, or a gyuto, so you're going the right way. Sounds like you are careful with your knives and take good care of them, and will be even more so with this new knife.

My suspicions are that careful use can prevent most of the twisting motions that would be problematic with a laser. Still, I keep my old Wusthof around if I want something strong and tough. A Forschner or an even less expensive knife would work well, too.

Bamboo is technically a grass, and those boards require a significant amount of glue to hold them together. The glue is fairly hard after it dries. A solid wood board is better for edges.


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7684
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark,

I appreciate you directing me to the thread. It has allowed me to narrow my purchases greatly and decide I would prefer a 240mm instead of a 210mm. So my last questions are for you since you deal with all of these daily, they regard stocking, and you sell all of them as I am ready to purchase...

1) If it was in stock, I would take the Konosuke Tsuchime 240mm Gyuto hands down...I like the look and the extra thickness and steel type probably suits my application better than anything else...is there any way to know when this will be back in stock?
2) My second favorite is the Kono Fuji #2 Gyuto 240 Ebony...again, any way to know when it will be in stock?
3) My next favorite is the Kono Funi Gyuto 240 which is in stock...depending on the response to the above two, it may make sense to purchase this as it seems incredibly nice as well.
4) I noticed Richmond makes a 210mm in Bohler M390...I've used this steel on a fixed blade and abused it incredibly and it's taken the beating like a champ. Is there is a 240mm version of this?
5) The Richmond Laser Aogami 240mm looks incredible...but judging by the pre-orders, I am guessing it will be a long time until this is in stock?

Thanks much,
Zac



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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2872
Location: CT
Mark is waiting for the AS Lasers to arrive back from engraving, then they need the handles installed, so these may be ready in a few weeks. The Richmond Ultimatum in M390 is the only one close to 240mm currently, but those are out of stock as well and I am not sure if/when there will be another run made.

I know Mark is waiting on over 600 Kono's to arrive, so I am not sure when those specific ones will be arriving. They fly out of stock once they arrive!

The Kono Fuji is supposed to be an awesome knife, nice and thin, but a little thicker/heavier than the laser Kono's and with awesome grinds.


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7684
Location: Madison Wisconsin
1) I was told 1 year about a month ago.
2) Is this the one? If yes I placed an order for more about 5 weeks ago. I never know when they will show. My guess is 30 days. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/konosuke9.html
3) It's a sweet knife. You'll love it.
4) Not anymore. None planned. We're almost done with the 210s and I have not decided if I want to do them again.
5) Actually we have 30 at the engraver and they will be in the shop in a few days. Then my woodworker will handle them. This should all happen in about a week. If you buy it you will be guaranteed a knife.

Good luck! and thanks to you guys that posted on this thread. Great responses!



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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 123
Location: San Francisco
If you're really itching to buy something today, have you considered the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 knives? The are more expensive than the Fujiyama White #2, however.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofubl2gy24.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofubl2fu24.html


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 134
chefknivestogo wrote:If you buy it you will be guaranteed a knife.


Does this apply to everyone who orders an AS 240 Laser today?


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 48
While not necessarily needing to buy today, I'd prefer to purchase something in stock or with a pretty solid lead time. My experience on order hand-crafted knives that aren't in stock has been that they usually take significantly longer than anticipated given demand usually is greater than supply and the skilled craftspeople who make such knives are generally few and far between.

I would consider the Fuji in Blue #2 even tho it moves up in price a good bit from the $250-ish of the Funi HH or HD Wa-Gyuto Ho which are also in stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Location: USA... mostly.
ZAC <> Again... you are vacillating between some really different knives; san-mai carbon, a stainless & semi-stainless laser, a top-tier hand-hammered full carbon.

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

What do you want?
    Do you want a mono-steel carbon blade?
    Do you want a laser?
    Do you want a stainless blade?
    Do you want a stainless clad blade?
    Do you want a Funayuki?
    Do you want a Gyuto?



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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 48
I've looked into the different things people in this thread have discussed and to be completely honest I think I will love virtually any of the items mentioned...which is more reason for me to be flexible to what is in stock. I've been reading about the use of lasers and I can see why they are liked...when I use my Wustoff, I'm using a very different grip and using the force of the blade rather than technique and a paper thin edge. Keep in mind the Wustoff I am using now has a thickness of .135 inches, so the thickness differences between lasers and knives slightly thicker isn't as meaningful to me...to me, they are all pretty thin and they all mean I'll be able to learn a different technique. From what you've said, a 240mm seems like a good choice.

As far as steel, I'm pretty open despite personal preferences. I own blades in many different types...if a maker does a good hardening, even 440C can be a good blade steel, so most of the steels we've discussed are in premium-to-super-steel territory...if the maker is competent with hardening, then my personal preferences based on limited experience really does not mean a whole lot. I like stainless, carbon, high speed, san mai, damascus, composite, etc...

If the primary difference between a Funayuki and Gyuto is primarily a single vs double bevel, then I really cannot tell you which as I've seen Funayukis with double bevels as well and the differences seem to be relatively minor...variation within each of the two types seem to be greater, such as how the belly is contoured and how the tip is tapered.

I really do appreciate all of the help...it is incredible how many selections there are.


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 Post subject: Re: Ken Onion, Masamoto HC or Konosuke?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:15 am 
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There are real funayuki that are single bevel, but the Kono you are looking at is a double bevel gyuto with the funy profile; ie a flatter edge, narrower and pointier tip normally, similar to a sabatier (french) or Masamoto KS profile. I was used to a more normal gyuto shape until I tried an Artifex 240mm. I hated it, blade wasn't tall enough, felt odd to me, etc, so it sat in my shop for months. Then I decided to convert it to a wa and thin it out a bit. Now I use it a lot and if I want to use a stainless knife, that's the one I grab now! Tastes and preferences change and go back and forth.

For someone looking to get into a good Japanese knife, I think any of those choices will be good. The OP is looking for a good blade and isn't hung up on the differences (clad, mono steel, gyuto/funy, etc) as much as some people may be. Many people buy a knife, use it and see what they like and don't like and try some different ones. Some luck out and find the perfect knife for them on their first knife. Everyone feels that way with a new knife and then you get to know the knife and it's strength and weaknesses. This is part of the learning process. I have some sabatier profile knives, long lasers, shorter workhorses, several different nakiri's, etc. You will end up with more than one, that is part of the fun! Some will excel at some things, some will find a niche for how you use them. A funayuki profiled gyuto will be better for push cutting than rocking due to the flatter edge and will have a narrower/pointier tip. If you want to do fine cuts with the tip, look at the funy. If you don't do much tip work, a gyuto or funy is good. If you love to rock chop, maybe look more at the gyuto. I use several of the knives in my collection for various tasks and keep going back to several main knives, but not just one.

Like I said, each knife has it's strength and weaknesses and they vary for everyone. I don't do fine tip work, so I don't need a pointy funy for most tasks I do, but it does come in handy for trimming larger cuts of meats and the flatter edge works better with push cuts. Sweet potatoes get cut with a select few knives based on how they perform; I usually lean towards a nakiri for sweet potatoes, but a gyuto for regular potatoes.

Some people like to get certain knives from certain makers for different reasons. Say a Gyuto from the AS Laser line, a Kono Funy, a different brand petty, etc to try out different styles and steels and grinds. Some other forums do "pass arounds" where they mail around a knife to several different people to let them try them out for a few days and see how they like it. If you are near other members, you may be able to meet up and check out what they have. It's kinda fun to try out other knives and see how they work. Some I thought would be great were so so, others were sleepers and surprised me in how well they performed!

Japanese Knives are like Lays Potato Chips; you can't just have one!!! Welcome to the addiction!


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