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 Post subject: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:37 pm
Posts: 67
Hi All,

I currently own several SS knives, Shun, Wusthof
Am looking to expand my knowledge and experience in Carbon Steel in fine quality Japanese knives.

1. Are you right handed? YES
2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..) GYUTO
3. What size knife are you looking for? 240
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? CARBON
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? JAPANESE
6. How much did you want to spend? ???
7. Do you know how to sharpen? YES
Home Chef
reasonably experienced

Looking for some feedback on some specific knives (yes I've read the reviews where applicable) and any other suggestions that you feel appropriate. I'd also like to get specific responses about:
Chipping
Edge retention
Versatility

I'm particularly interested if you have experiences with all or some of these knives and how you would make comparisons:

Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 240mm Gyuoto http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofubl2gy24.html
Suisin Inox Honyaki Wa-Gyuto 240mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suinhowa24.html (Yes, I'm aware it Swedish SS) I just like the look of it and the grind :)
Moritaka KS 250mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritakagyuto.html
Moritaka 240mm Gyuto http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritaka8.html
Takeda Gyuto 240mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagyas24.html

Other suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Posts: 2860
Location: CT
Tanaka Sekiso gyuto and 240mm Richmond AS Laser


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3755
Location: USA... mostly.
MJ <> "I'd also like to get specific responses about:
    Chipping
    Edge retention
    Versatility"

Although some steels are "prone" or rather known for chipping, your largest cause of chipping is going to be impact (1), an overly acute final bevel (2), and high Hrc heat treats (3). This is a dynamic axis of which attention need be focused on to address each knife's limits. {Hard steel is more apt to chip. Hitting a bone, frozen food, any brute impact is a threat. A very thin edge created by acute sharpening angles is a recipe for chipping.}

Edge retention is most easily going to achieved by choosing harder steels. High hardness heat treats create harder steel that deforms less easily than softer steel. For example, Blue Super Steel @Hrc 65 offers exceptional edge retention; better than you would garner from Aoniko @Hrc60, but the softer steel will be more durable (i.e., less likely to chip). Additionally, some of the Powder Metals like ZDP189, SG-2, M390 offer insane edge retention at the expense of ease of sharpening. Everything is give & take.

Versatility comes down to profile & your abilities. You have referenced a bunch of different profile knives... really night & day knives. A 240 Takeda Gyuto is basically a Nakiri w/a pointed tip tacked on... a VERY tall knife. A Moritaka KS is a relatively short knife at NO LESS than an entire cm shorter. A Suisin InoxHonyaki is a laser thin light saber, a Kono Fuji has some beef.

Also, you say you like the grind of a Suisin IH. I can therefore extrapolate you have used/held one? If so, you know how amazing they are. The line is microscopic between it & the Kono HD, but the Suisin Inox Honyaki is my all time favorite knife.

I will never own a standard production Takeda Gyuto as they're WAY too tall for me; just as the Sasanoha is too short. I own a Masamoto KS, and love the knife dearly in its middleweight category. I own Moritaka AS, and love their product though I don't have a Gyuto. I own a mass of Konosuke knives & they are magical... period.



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 Post subject: Re: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 2823
Konosuke Fujiyama - A laser style knife. Blue #2 is a great steel. Very well made.

Suisin IH wa - Another laser style knife. Good steel, extremely light knife overall.

Moritaka's - They're both really similar, so I'll lump them together. Got that KU finish, still reasonably thin, nice handles. With your other choices, I wouldn't pick these.

Takeda - Very tall blade profile, be aware of that before you buy it. They also make the Sasanoha which is more similar in profile to the other knives you listed. Takeda is a great knife maker. His HT of AS is really great. Thin, super thin, behind the edge, cuts very well, will come very sharp, nice handles....overall a great knife. Everyone should own a Takeda. :) I sound like a broken record.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/taassala24gy.html

Of the three that aren't the Moritaka's, they're all really great knives. I'd buy based on some criteria that didn't involve quality. Looks, profile, handle, stainless in the case of the Suisin, etc.

The only criteria you listed that would really make a big difference between the three would be "chipping". The Konosuke and the Takeda would chip easier than the Suisin.



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 Post subject: Re: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Madison Wisconsin
mjwit wrote:Hi All,

I currently own several SS knives, Shun, Wusthof
Am looking to expand my knowledge and experience in Carbon Steel in fine quality Japanese knives.

1. Are you right handed? YES
2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..) GYUTO
3. What size knife are you looking for? 240
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? CARBON
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? JAPANESE
6. How much did you want to spend? ???
7. Do you know how to sharpen? YES
Home Chef
reasonably experienced

Looking for some feedback on some specific knives (yes I've read the reviews where applicable) and any other suggestions that you feel appropriate. I'd also like to get specific responses about:
Chipping
Edge retention
Versatility

I'm particularly interested if you have experiences with all or some of these knives and how you would make comparisons:

Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 240mm Gyuoto http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofubl2gy24.html
Suisin Inox Honyaki Wa-Gyuto 240mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suinhowa24.html (Yes, I'm aware it Swedish SS) I just like the look of it and the grind :)
Moritaka KS 250mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritakagyuto.html
Moritaka 240mm Gyuto http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritaka8.html
Takeda Gyuto 240mm http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagyas24.html

Other suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
Mark


Here is how I would order them based on your criteria and without any regard to price. You picked great knives.

Konosuke Blue #2 It's thicker, hand made and beautiful. What a great first carbon steel knife to get. Konosuke's are made by the best artisans in Sakai and the fit and finish on their knives are consistently excellent. Even though this is an expensive knife you truly get what you pay for with this company. Their stuff is all top shelf.

Takeda: This is an iconic knife. Shosui damn near single handedly changed my business. The first time I held his knife it blew my mind. I'm serious! Cutting with it is an honor. The guy's my friend and even if I hated him I would strongly recommend his gyuto. It's that good.

Moritaka KS 250: I have my pal Salty to thank for this knife. His constant harping about the Masamoto KS made me pay attention to this shape so I asked Moritaka to do it and it's a great knife. These guys have been making knives for multiple generations and they make excellent knives. We sell these knives like crazy because people that buy them love them. So do it. They're great.

Moritaka 240: This is a tie with the above. Just choose the shape you like best.

Suisin: This is a great knife but pass on this. You said you wanted a carbon blade. Save this for another time and come back and ask about getting a stainless laser. There are others that compete with this knife but it's sweet and I recommend it all the time.



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 Post subject: Re: Looking for feedback on 240 Gyutos
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:37 pm
Posts: 67
Thank you all very much for your thoughtful replies. It's sometimes difficult with all the choices and without being able to try everything to make the appropriate decisions - your input is greatly appreciated.
Mark


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