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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:09 am 
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"You're not going to get food borne illness cutting proteins and vegetables on a proper wood cutting board. Its all about the bio load"

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but in some instances, some individuals, especially those with compromised immune systems, can be more susceptible to foodborne illnesses - not only bacterial but parasitic as well. So in that sense they ARE special :) I would also add that especially in other countries, the diseases that do get transmitted are far more common than here.

But, having said all that, I do what others here do, keeping separate boards for animal proteins and other foods, either using a separate plastic or wooden cutting board.

I wouldn't recommend using the two sides of the board as you can cross contaminate the boards when flipping it over - depending on your technique.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:21 am 
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I also keep separate cutting boards for meat and milk dishes. While I don't keep a Kosher kitchen, this is as much a cultural bias of mine and may not be entirely logical, but I'm hedging my bets that the dietary laws here may have something going I don't know about.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:26 am 

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When I first saw this thread I thought it was going to be about butchering hogs.

I have an end grain 24x18x3.5 Michigan Maple Block Company board that I got for a song. Well south of $100. They also make round boards if that's your thing.

Mark, you might want to look into those. They're from Petoskey, just across the lake.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:30 am 
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Thanks for the hint on the Michigan Maple Block Company.

I'm not a huge fan of poly boards for a couple reasons; potential edge entrapment and chipping, as well as goop entrapment leading to potentially not all the sanitize-able benefits that are claimed. They are cheap and functional, I have to admit.

There is a group of scientists that have been stating conclusions that, in the home kitchen, a plastic board may be no better than a wooden board. http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/facul ... gboard.htm (Commercial kitchens typically have different regimens for cleaning and food prep than home kitchens, as well as needing to adhere to applicable health codes). There certainly are other opinions, but at the very least they aren't saying that wooden boards, well cleaned and cared for, are significantly worse than plastic boards in the home.

One suggestion that has come from Japanese chefs who work on unfinished wooden boards is to wet the board first. The thinking is that if the board is dry, it will absorb liquids from what is being cut, if the board is wet, it would absorb less. Wives' tale? Perhaps.

No matter the material, I do like to have two completely independent boards to use as a minimum, and prefer to keep poultry on a third board. The National Chicken Council brags about "only" a 4.3% nationwide average of Salmonella in chicken carcasses tested, but the FDA allows 7.5%. Hmmm, break down ten chickens and you've got somewhere around a 50/50 shot that one of them was contaminated. I'll spend another $10 for a yellow poly board and scrub it and sanitize it, thanks...


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:02 am 
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[quote="ken123"]I also keep separate cutting boards for meat and milk dishes. While I don't keep a Kosher kitchen, this is as much a cultural bias of mine and may not be entirely logical, but I'm hedging my bets that the dietary laws here may have something going I don't know about. Ken[quote]

Thanks ken, if the gentleman mr mucho bucho would have read In my original statement i also have an end grain board everybody's who has seen one of my videos and I also have the plastic boards also. Basically I was asking which would be a better board, a maple or whatever kind of hard wood and either flip or use plastic and bleach. The food born illness I contracted did make me fill special a trip to the ER, almost a week in the hospital due to a compromised immunity which I have no desire to discuss most know the story.
All I wanted was some hints or ideas on which way to spend the cash I don't have. And got the people who have never had a food born illness don't judge till you get on and at the time of the incident the doctors were asking my family to prepare for the possible worse cause it dam near killed me. Thanks again and peace to all jmbullman



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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:21 am 
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jeff wrote:Thanks for the hint on the Michigan Maple Block Company.

I'm not a huge fan of poly boards for a couple reasons; potential edge entrapment and chipping, as well as goop entrapment leading to potentially not all the sanitize-able benefits that are claimed. They are cheap and functional, I have to admit.

There is a group of scientists that have been stating conclusions that, in the home kitchen, a plastic board may be no better than a wooden board. http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/facul ... gboard.htm (Commercial kitchens typically have different regimens for cleaning and food prep than home kitchens, as well as needing to adhere to applicable health codes). There certainly are other opinions, but at the very least they aren't saying that wooden boards, well cleaned and cared for, are significantly worse than plastic boards in the home.

One suggestion that has come from Japanese chefs who work on unfinished wooden boards is to wet the board first. The thinking is that if the board is dry, it will absorb liquids from what is being cut, if the board is wet, it would absorb less. Wives' tale? Perhaps.

No matter the material, I do like to have two completely independent boards to use as a minimum, and prefer to keep poultry on a third board. The National Chicken Council brags about "only" a 4.3% nationwide average of Salmonella in chicken carcasses tested, but the FDA allows 7.5%. Hmmm, break down ten chickens and you've got somewhere around a 50/50 shot that one of them was contaminated. I'll spend another $10 for a yellow poly board and scrub it and sanitize it, thanks...



Thanks Jeff , I believer after the great info given i might just go to wallmart of some store of the like and buy a handful of the thin poly boards use them, wash them, bleach them after poultry use and toss when worried. I will save the new wood board for other foods . Thanks to all. Jmbullman



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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:14 pm
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Heres a condensed version of the findings from a research group at UC Davis.

PLASTIC AND WOODEN CUTTING BOARDS

Dean O. Cliver, Ph.D

We began our research comparing plastic and wooden cutting boards after the U.S. Department of Agriculture told us they had no scientific evidence to support their recommendation that plastic, rather than wooden cutting boards be used in home kitchens.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

The experiments described have been conducted with more than 10 species of hardwoods and with 4 plastic polymers, as well as hard rubber. Because we found essentially no differences among the tested wood species, not all combinations of bacteria and wood were tested, nor were all combinations of bacteria and plastics or hard rubber. Bacteria tested, in addition to those named above, include Campylobacter jejuni, Listeria monocytogenes, and Staphylococcus aureus.

We believe that the experiments were designed to be properly representative of conditions in a home kitchen. They may or may not be applicable to other plastic and wooden food contact surfaces or to cutting boards in commercial food processing or food service operations, but we have no reason to believe that they are not relevant, except that not all plastic surfaces are subject to knife-scarring

We have no commercial relationships to any company making cutting boards or other food preparation utensils. We have tested boards and cleaning and disinfection products, some of which were supplied to us gratis. We believe, on the basis of our published and to-be-published research, that food can be prepared safely on wooden cutting surfaces and that plastic cutting surfaces present some disadvantages that had been overlooked until we found them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Seems some of my comments ruffled feathers. Jim, what did I say to insult you. Why would you take such offense personally? When I said "The world uses wood but you know better" perhaps I could have worded that differently but it wasn't directed toward anyone in particular. As its been said before, "If one looks for offense, one will be offended"


But while I'm at it, you're assuming that you got the FBI from the cutting board. Did you have it tested to see if it was in fact contaminated. As stated above, if you practice proper food pre methods, you won't get sick from wood.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:10 am 
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Man I am just letting it go, we have no problems, the incident was almost 20 yrs ago and that was the findings acording to the ER on call asking what I had ate that day and that was basically all I had had that day. No problems here and no I am not special. And I was going to ask the restaurant in question to have all their boards tested. It was my fault for eating there since there rating wasn't the best but my coworker had exactly what I had a d came in the next morning with almost similar symptoms, after 20 years testing would be impossible but basically I was just asking what board would be better and the problems I was having when I cleaned them. I will be ordering a cherry or maple board soon and I will go to Walmart and get some of the cheap poly boards for chicken. That's all I was asking if you go back and read the original post. I am more than over it and the answer is know I am not a special person I usually put my pants on one leg at a time unless I can't bend over well that morning and if that happens the wife helps and than I feel special. No issues here my conscious is clean I have jiggers things to worry about. Peace to you and yours and I hope you have a very good day. Jmbullman



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 Post subject: Re: Cutting boars question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:35 pm 
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This is were I find keeping a board conditioned properly probably helps a lot too. A well oiled/conditioned board is going to absorb less liquids and bacteria and make them easier to clean.



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