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 Post subject: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:57 pm
Posts: 3
Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum and I. The market for a new 210 Gyuto and 270 Sujihiki. I am a Chef in the Bay Area and am right handed and sharpen my own knives. I don't really care if it is a western or Japanese handle. For the last 6 or so years I have used an 8" Masahiro stainless chefs knife. I like the thin blade and edge shape (similar to the sabatier I used before it) but I am looking for knife that lows me to take the edge to the next level. Maybe a semi stainless or something in that vein. I was looking at the konsuke HD2 or the Suisin Inox. I don't want a full carbon gyuto as that is why I retired the Sabatier to butchery (to much maintenance).

As far as the Sujihiki goes I am looking for carbon and an excellent edge.

I am looking to spend under $500 for each of the knives.

Thanks for the thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Grizzly - check out this thread: richmond-aeb-l-laser-gyuto-vs-konosuke-hd2-gyuto-t3178.html.

And this thread: suisin-inox-versus-konosuke-hd-t2236.html


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:50 am
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First post & a relative novice to the world of high end knives - but for my two cents, as far as your gyuto, take a look at the Masakage line here on CKTG.

I own the Yuki 240mm Gyuto and love it. It takes a sick edge and is just a beautiful knife. Extremely well balanced and great F&F. They're stainless clad and after about a month of use in a pro. kitchen, I've had no issue as far as reactivity. I take good care of it, but have cut through cambros worth of onions and only a slight patina has started to form. No discoloration or odd smells on product to note.

It is White #2 steel which I've been seeing a lot of cooks don't prefer because of its edge retention, so that is something to keep in mind. I feel it holds it fairly well, but it's my first carbon knife so I have nothing to compare it to. After a few shifts of heavy usage on poly boards, you can definitely notice it becoming more dull. But it's a real pleasure to sharpen, even for a novice like me, and takes a razor edge faster than any of my other knives. I touch up all my knives at least once a week anyways, and don't mind giving it some quick love every 3 or 4 days. I know some do though.

They have another line in AS steel which is said to have better edge retention, if you don't mind the higher price point.

The blade profile might also not be the best for you if you do a lot of rock chopping, at least as far as my Yuki 240mm, but they are some hella sexy knives IMO.

Thought I'd throw that in because you mentioned a semi stainless & you don't see many reviews of these knives. Best of luck on your selection.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 123
Location: San Francisco
Might want to consider a 240 "laser" like the Konosuke HD -- I've got one in the funayuki/gyuto profile which measures out to around 230 mm and feels like a petty in my non-professional hand. I had thought I wanted a 210, but am now happy that I ended up with the 240. I was looking for something to fit in between my 300 mm gyuto and the 150-165 mm petty/bunka/santoku size knives. The Konosuke 240 does that nicely.

I'm working on getting my ducks in a row for a Konosuke sujihiki as well -- http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2su30.html


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:26 am 
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GRIZZLY <> OK... so the 210 gyutos are interesting in the Kono & Suisin as they are short... both coming in around 42mm - for me... effectively useless. That said, maybe you like short 210's. I don't know what Masahiro you have so I can't contrast what you're using. And with that said, I can't know how thin it is either. {I have a Masahiro, but its a petty & honestly, it is extremely thin & has a very brittle feel to it; I use it solely to carve fruit.} I raise the point of thickness as I see you have received some stainless-clad reco's & lasers are something you have to want to use.

Here's the thing, I have about 50 knives, and the KonoHD is a gift from G-d... period. It is utterly awesome steel; (following statements applied to near equivocal Hrc) effectively as sharp as carbon, sharpens like carbon, retains an edge better than carbon, and is basically stainless. I'm not blowing Kosuke, but his company just makes awesome product... period.

That said & said grudgingly as its splitting hair (literally ;) ), my favorite overall gyuto is the Suisin Honyaki INOX. I have 240's in both the Kono & Suisin, of which are nearly identical in profile, I have used 210's & 270's in both extensively, and there is just simply something special about the Suisin, a je ne sais quoi that trumps the Kono... with me. Visibly, the only dramatic difference are the handles: the kono much thinner than the thicker rounded tapered octagonal Suisin. The Suisin also has a stamped kanji while the Kono's is engraved.

Now to confuse that comment - as it was said grudgingly - the KonoHD holds its edge longer. I have no confusion in that. The Suisin 19c27 is extremely competent steel, but IMO I prefer the KonoHD... steel. Still in the overall package, the Suisin wins. Barely. Price point is the deciding factor as all in all, these are two really close knives.

Also, factor in - as I see Jeff chimed in while I was typing this - the Kono comes in a Funayuki. Said profile is closest to the Sabatier you are comfortable with: small belly & similar "flat" spot. It is a "240", but they come around 235 on the edge & w/o the exposed machi, as they are now unfortunately sold, they feel short.

Suji:
Check out the Moritaka http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritaka11.html. It is, in fact, double bevel, and their Blue Super @Hrc65 is really some incredible stuff for a Suji.
The Misono Swedish is a Western winner http://www.chefknivestogo.com/misono8.html.
Again, the Kono's are top tier, and you have White#1, #2, and Blue #2 to choose from.



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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:34 am 
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The Moritaka Yanagiba/Sujihiki are kind of fat. I have a 300mm Kono White #2 and love it. If your budget allows, maybe go for a Fujiyama Suji? They are a step up from the regular Kono line.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:27 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:57 pm
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Thanks for all of the input. The Kono funayuki looks a lot like the edge profile that I prefer. I will have to give one a try when they are back in stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Ummm, suji: :)

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofuwh1gy24.html

Would be an incredible knife.



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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:57 pm
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So now that you have helped me reach a conclusion on the Gyuto. My struggle with the Suji is a little less based in practicality and a little more philosophical. It is the sheer performance vs artisanal Craft. Everyone has seconded my original thought on a Suji which was a White #1 Kono http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofuwh1gy24.html . That is where the rational scientific side of me leans. The artistic side of me leans to the hand hammered and forged Takeda http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tayaasdoed27.html . How much, if any performance would I be giving up with the Takeda? My wife says that as a professional I must side with performance. But in my experience as with Melampus's thoughts on the Kono vs the suisun. As you get into the realm of high end knives the margin of difference becomes so small that it is really the issue of taste. With that being said I would love to hear people's thoughts on these knifes.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a couple new knives
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:21 am 
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GRIZZLY <> I had originally considered recommending the Takeda to you, but you had asked for a Suji. I'm assuming you asked for a Suji because you like the taller profile & double bevel. Traditionally, a Yani is single bevel w/urasuki. Honestly, I don't know if the Takeda is double-bevel like the Moritaka "Yani" which is why I refrained from recommending it. If in fact it is double bevel, I would strongly recommend it.

That said, understand the Kono Fuji series is a handmade knife just like the Takeda. I don't have both knives in hand to compare, but it is of my understanding the Fujiyama is a more substantial blade. For me, I prefer a little heft in my slicers; on that premise, my choosing the Fuji over the Takeda would be for performance over artistry. The fact that it's a piece of art in its own right is just gravy...



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