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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 224
In my experience there is just about no way to not scuff up the side of the blade when thinning, kind of inherent when removing metal behind the edge. Word seems to be that you can polish it out with fine scotch brite pads. I have instead chosen to embrace the scuffed up look after having tried a few different abrasive pads without great success (not scotchbrite pads, thought I could cheap my way around them. Nope). I have gotten consistent enough holding an angle that the marks create a wavy, but consistent line all the way along the grind. I think it looks pretty cool actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:01 pm
Posts: 210
Good philosophy there LucaBrasi, I agree. Blades are tools that are meant to be used and enjoyed and any scratches, marks, dings, etc. just make the knife that much more uniquely your own.

For client's blades, however, I have found that with experience, you can certainly learn how to thin down the shoulders of the bevel without scuffing up the secondary edge (or at least significantly minimize scuff). With the common European style blades (Wusthof, etc) where the secondary edge extends all the way up to the spine of the blade, Murray Carter (in his videos) would simply lay the entire secondary edge (thus the entire blade surface) flat on the stone and grind away to remove bevel shoulder. This is a little extreme, but obviously he considers blades working tools as well and welcomes any scratches by the owners hand.

Once you get the feel for it though, you can raise that spine slightly off the stone and grind away quickly and efficiently right on the bevel shoulder to remove steel with some decent precision. I use both hands with the edge always facing me and I find (at least for me) it helps the accuracy.

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 161
Location: Northern Virginia
Thinning makes such a difference. It's a great skill to learn. Congratz.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 224
I see. I guess I have been thinning a little flat then. Have gotten great performance results, and had come to accept the scuffing of the 15 mm or so behind the edge (blade road?) to be a necessary part of thinning. Next time around I will raise the spine a touch and see how it goes, though it doesn't seem like I have too much play before I am simply sharpening the edge. Worth a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:01 pm
Posts: 210
Yes indeed, give it a shot next time, you'll get the feel for it. It's now one of my favorite parts of the process since it really does boost performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 199
LucaBrasi wrote:Have gotten great performance results, and had come to accept the scuffing of the 15 mm or so behind the edge (blade road?) to be a necessary part of thinning.


I was gonna say, I wasn't just scuffing up the shoulder of the bevel, I have scratches 15mm or so up the side as you mentioned Luca. I will admit my technique is sloppy but I have small goals to achieve and I find I meet or exceed them during most of my sharpening sessions. I will just have to try and work on it next time I thin, probably after two more sharpening sessions.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 224
I will try a few different things but I've been very happy with my results. I have been using Jon Broida's technique from his Youtube video on thinning, or at least my best approximation. He demonstrates thinning all the way up to where the laquered finish starts on a kurouchi style knife, and I would say that is about what I am doing. I had thought this was just what thinning is, and didn't realize there was a different method to keep the thinning closer to the edge. I've been happy with the angle I've kept, and it has been a consistent line the length of the knife up to about where a kurouchi finish would start. Like I said before, I have come to appreciate the look it creates.

I haven't been doing this long enough to have any steadfast opinion on the matter, so I will try a few different things, and I appreciate the advice from Josh up there.

My only advice to you Jwesly1 would be keep trying. The effort is worth it in performance, and once you get the muscle memory going to hold the lower angle for thinning it is easy. And fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 199
LucaBrasi wrote:I have been using Jon Broida's technique from his Youtube video on thinning, or at least my best approximation. He demonstrates thinning all the way up to where the laquered finish starts on a kurouchi style knife, and I would say that is about what I am doing. I had thought this was just what thinning is, and didn't realize there was a different method to keep the thinning closer to the edge. I've been happy with the angle I've kept, and it has been a consistent line the length of the knife up to about where a kurouchi finish would start.


Sounds like you are much better at it than me. I am getting scratches a centimeter or so above the new thinned edge. Only happened on one knife and oddly on one side that I thought was my strongest technique side. Either way, no biggie just clearly need a lot more practice. I would like to see a picture of one of your thinned knives if you could Luca.


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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 224
Best picture I could manage. I am not holding myself out as any kind of master. I am very much a novice. Either way, this thinning level has greatly increased the knife's performance. Has taken a few times to get to where I am holding an angle well enough to have a reasonably consistent line like that, but has gotten better with each try. I will try lifting the spine a touch as suggested and see how it works out. The knife performs great now, and I am sure can perform even better.
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 Post subject: Re: Thinning behind the edge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 199
I got a pretty crap photo of my results but you can see what aren't exactly scratches, but more what appears like mud and swarf was being pushed up the side of the blade because I held the angle too low and I was just shooting for behind the edge. Either way like you say, my knife does perform better because of this alteration. Practice makes perfect!!!

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m49 ... 66167d.jpg


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