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 Post subject: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark,

I'm looking to step up my kitchen knives. I have a set of Martha Stewart Essentials knives I got from Target like 4 years ago. I know they're horrible knives, and I'd like to step up to something a bit better. I'm not sure what to look for in a knife, so I was thinking of getting a 10" Victronix (Forschner) Chef and 7" Santoku to start with and see what I like better before investing a bigger amount of money. Seeing as I can get both of these for about $70, it seems like an amazing deal. Would this be a good idea or should I just spring on a really good chef knife? If so, would you be able to point me into the right direction for what knife to get? I'm vegan, so don't have to cut any meats, just veggies and fruits.

Thanks,
Eric



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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Hi Eric,

For the money the Forschner/Victorinox Fibrox 10" Chef is hard to beat. I don't like the handle on the santoku at all so save your money and try something different. This will also give you a better reference if you compare 2 different brands.

I really encourage you to try an entry level Japanese knife. Once you get a little taste of what a good knife is, you will want to try more. They also are not that much money for entry level knives.
I suggest you try this Fujiwara Stainless Santoku if you would like to try that style of knife. You'll be impressed. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmsa18.html

Or blow off the Victorinox all together and get their gyuto: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy21.html



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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Eric -

Depending on what you're coming from, a 10" chef's knife is very big. It is the size that most knife enthusiasts like, but just saying. :)

Your plan is certainly not a bad one, and I couldn't really recommend against.

Another option, not necessarily better, just different....would be to buy an inexpensive gyuto/chef's in the size you like now. Something like:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html

or:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html



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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:52 pm 

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:42 pm
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Hi guys, here are the answers to the questionnaire if it helps any.

1. Are you right handed? Yes

2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..) Gyuto/Chef, and maybe a Santoku (never used a Santoku, but they intrigue me, so a decent low priced one would be great to try it and see)

3. What size knife are you looking for? 8"+ (10" probably (240mm; maybe even 270mm) for Gyuto/Chef and 7" for Santoku

4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? Stainless Steel

5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? Not sure

6. How much did you want to spend? For the chef, around $100; the Santoku, as little as possible while still getting a decent one to try out; if I don't like it, I'll just give it to the misses (since she rarely cooks anyways). If I do like it, I'll get a nicer one and give the lower priced one to the misses.

7. Do you know how to sharpen? I know the basics. I got an Edge Pro system and have been practicing on my cheap knife set. :D



How do the Fujiwara FKMs compare to the Richmond Artifex. IE: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html vs. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html and what's the Finishing Sharpening option on the Artifex?

I'm assuming the Richmond Aogami Super and Laser AEB-L are huge steps up from the Artifex, as they are over double the cost. And at that price point there are so many options my head would start to hurt. haha


Last edited by EricN on Wed May 29, 2013 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:58 pm 

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:42 pm
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Adam Marr wrote:Eric -

Depending on what you're coming from, a 10" chef's knife is very big. It is the size that most knife enthusiasts like, but just saying. :)

Your plan is certainly not a bad one, and I couldn't really recommend against.

Another option, not necessarily better, just different....would be to buy an inexpensive gyuto/chef's in the size you like now. Something like:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html

or:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html



I'm not worried about the size of the 10" chef knife. My daily carry around "pocketknife" has a 7" blade, so sizes of big knives aren't a worry/concern to me; big knives aren't intimidating unless you don't know how to use a knife.

I figure I'd try out some less expensive (but still decent knives) to see what I like before spending serious cash on a knife. Whatever less pricey knife/knives I get will end up going to the misses who doesn't cook that much (maybe once a month?) after I get something better. My current (read: cheap) set of knives will be going to her as soon as I get even these less expensive knives (if I remember right, it's like a 12 knife set that cost me about $40)


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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 pm 
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The "Finish Sharpening" sends the knife to one of a few different knife sharpeners who refine the edge for you before it ever gets to you.

How do they compare.....

I like the AEB-L in the Artifex enough to give my vote for it. The handle on the Fujiwara is nicer with it's bolster and it's geometry is slightly better, but with a little thinning, the Artifex will out perform it. Handles don't mean much to me as I use a pinch grip.

The Laser's are a lot better than either, but they're laser's and some people shouldn't own a laser or don't need a laser. Still, they're made better than either of the other two as well.

I'd say get an Artifex and Forschner santoku.



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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:21 pm 

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:42 pm
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Also, just saw this and my jaw dropped:
http://youtu.be/GTHD2J2za6Y?t=52s

Does a knife like this need to be sharpened every day / after every use or would it hold an edge for a while? What else out there cuts this well?


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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:24 pm 

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:42 pm
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Adam Marr wrote:The "Finish Sharpening" sends the knife to one of a few different knife sharpeners who refine the edge for you before it ever gets to you.


Worth the extra money? Does it make a fair difference in performance of the knife?

Adam Marr wrote:The Laser's are a lot better than either, but they're laser's and some people shouldn't own a laser or don't need a laser. Still, they're made better than either of the other two as well.

Care to elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you mean by "some people shouldn't own a laser or don't need a laser."


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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:31 pm 
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The Konosuke HD in that video is not alone in it's ability to do that. Many, many other knives out there can do that. It's a function of thickness (both behind the edge, and overall blade thickness) and how sharp you can make the knife. Typically something with laser qualities....ala Richmond Laser, Suisin Inox Honyaki, almost everything Konosuke, etc. and a decent steel can do what Shaun did in that video.

Exactly which knife you picked, and how it was used, would determine how often it needed sharpening.

The "Finish Sharpening" is not worth it to me....but I can sharpen a knife very well and in fact I wouldn't want anyone else sharpening my knife cause they don't do it my way. Worth is in the eye of the beholder though. It will make it sharper, but how sharp you can make a knife determines if they can make it sharper or not. This is not something I can answer for you really.

There are no real absolute definitions of a "Laser"....but in general they are very thin, hard knives. Some people simply don't need something like this...that's pretty straight forward. The "Some people shouldn't own one" aspect is more complicated though....in so much as (and I hate saying this cause I don't want it taken out of context, but....) they are very thin and can be more delicate. I use a laser for nearly all of my food prep on occasion (I have a lot of knives, so they rotate) with no problems. But, if you plan to be rough with a knife, a laser is not the best choice for you.

At one time I worked at SLT and often got people who brought back Shun's (especially the SG2 steel one's) chipped to beat hell....looked like serrated knives. They had used them to.....bust chicken bones, cut frozen food, pry open a can....."But I always did those things with my Wusthof and this knife cost twice as much"......yeah, they never should have had such a knife. The Shun's aren't lasers per say....but the idea is the same. Know what you're buying and if it's appropriate for your use of a knife.



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 Post subject: Re: 10" Forschner right for me?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:51 pm 
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At least for me, once you've used a high-performance knife, you won't want to go back to the more classic European-style knives for most of your work.

I find that a 240-300 mm gyuto and a 150 mm petty cover most all of my home cooking. The way I cook, I would put the gyuto first, the petty a close second, and both well beyond a santoku. A current, modest priced gyuto is going to be such an eye-opener, that would be where I would start.

With what has become recently available in the US, I'd go with a funayuki-style tweener (~150-180 mm) over a santoku. I haven't touched one, but http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tskakufu16.html is looking pretty good to me right now.

I'll admit to keeping a 10" Forshner in my drawer, though I have resharpened its thin, stamped blade to much steeper angles. I use it for "hard things" that I don't want to risk chipping or otherwise damaging my good knives; splitting open hard squash, chopping off fish heads, cracking lobsters, and the like, as well as when friends are cooking in the kitchen. At under $30 and some time on the stones, it is hard to argue against to augment your


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