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 Post subject: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 123
Location: San Francisco
Aaarrrrggg...

...just when you think you have enough.

I have opened Pandora's Box with the purchase of an old CV Heljestrand straight razor. I assume it is old, Swedish steel, and not a "stainless" alloy. While it is claimed to be "shave ready" and I do have a basic stropping and balsa-based honing kit on the way from Whipped Dog, I don't doubt that I'll eventually want to at least maintain the edge.

Right now I have a Shapton Glass Stone set including 500, 2000, and 6000 (US mix), as well as a DLP for flattening. I've also got the bridge and pond, though wouldn't be adverse to buying something like the Naniwa Sink Bridge or the Tojiro Sink Bridge. Any strong preferences between those two bridges?

I've read through some of the threads here that I could find and, as wonderful as the reviews of that Nubatama 15k sound, its price tag is perhaps a bit more than I want to invest, especially if I need another stone as well.

Given what I have, what would be good ways to "fill in the gaps" between what I have and what I would need to do at least a "very good" job with straight razors?

Go from the Shapton 6k to a Naniwa 10k? At that grit, are the "thin" stones going to last basically forever with "home" use? Do I "need" something past that to get a good enough edge (before stropping) to comfortably shave with?

Go from the Shapton 6k to an Ozuku Asagi, when they come in? Would I need another stone in there to make the jump?

Go from the Shapton 6k to a Glass Stone 16k or a Shapton Pro 15k? Again, is the jump too big?

Grrr...
...and there is still a deba and potentially another gyuto on my "to buy" list as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:14 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 211
Location: Austin, TX
I have stepped into the straight razor world just a bit. Cut my face to heck the first time I tried the straight razor and not a nick the second time . . . Here is what I used for my razors (I have four . . . yes a divergence from my knife hobby).


Kitayama 8K - but since you already have the 6K I would use that.
Naniwa Super Stone 10k
Ozuku Koppa
then I strop on balsa with .5micron CBN
finish on horse leather

Now that i have 0.25CBN and 0.01CBN (on horse hide) i would finish stropping at that level.

I have experimented with mixing the solution and the 10K (1.0 micron diamond) as well as the Ozuku Koppa (0.25 micron CBN) on knives and I am sure it would work great to enhance the polish on razors too (but I have not tried).

The nice thing about Razors is you can buy them for around $20-30 and you have a little project that is not too expensive. Try to find a 240mm Gyuto that needs a little TLC for $20-30. I also see the razors that have been restored and shave sharp sell for much more, so when you are done and want something else you can always sell and buy another project.



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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:23 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 882
I sharpened 4 today and this was my progression,

Nubatama 1k gold, 2k, 5k, and 10k imanishi. Strop on Chromium oxide.

I also like the 3k chosera, 5k SS, 12k SS, strop on Chromium oxide.

It's a tough choice between the 12k SS and 10k imanishi stones to finish with, both work well.

Haven't used any naturals yet though I think they would probably do a better job.


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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:41 am 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Unless you are honing out a chip or restoring a poorly cared for straight, there is no reason to go any lower than an 8k stone on a razor. In fact, doing so will appreciably shorten its life. If you are honing a razor that has been shaving well, even 8k is too coarse.

Think in terms of a Shapton GlassStone 16k or a Shapton Pro 15k as a good synthetic stone for honing of a straight, followed by stropping with chromium oxide on balsa. Once you get a good shaving edge, that's all you'll need for the life of your razor, unless you accidentally chip the edge.

The lowest grit stone you should consider is a 10 or 12k, and they are inferior to either Shapton.


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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:02 am 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 882
That's nice, but these are NIB razors from The Art of Shaving in most cases.

If the edge is good it gets Stropped, if not it gets sharpened. Not all razors are flat and true from the factory so going to a lower grit IS necessary. At 10k your not removing the edge damage created from repeated shaving. Did you know human hair has the same effects as solid copper of the same diameter? It doesn't take long to beat-up a edge.

It's just a razor, aim for polish but try to not get carried away and over-complicate things.


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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:35 am 
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JEFF <> You can get Edge Pro Shaptons as hand stones for a fraction of the cost...



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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:50 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Jason B. wrote:That's nice, but these are NIB razors from The Art of Shaving in most cases.

If the edge is good it gets Stropped, if not it gets sharpened. Not all razors are flat and true from the factory so going to a lower grit IS necessary. At 10k your not removing the edge damage created from repeated shaving. Did you know human hair has the same effects as solid copper of the same diameter? It doesn't take long to beat-up a edge.

It's just a razor, aim for polish but try to not get carried away and over-complicate things.


Then I must have been doing something wrong for years.

Unless you are repairing damage, or setting a new bevel, anything under 8k is not necessary, and is just removing metal for no reason. It's why you see so many vintage 4/8 razors.


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 Post subject: Re: Augment Shapton Glass Stone Set For Straight Razor
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:19 am 
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"JEFF <> You can get Edge Pro Shaptons as hand stones for a fraction of the cost..."

"I've read through some of the threads here that I could find and, as wonderful as the reviews of that Nubatama 15k sound, its price tag is perhaps a bit more than I want to invest, especially if I need another stone as well."

A 1x6" EP sized Nubatama 15k sounds like the perfect answer :)

I have some cut and they will be heading out to Mark shortly.... PM me if you just can't wait as he won't be posting them on the site until he returns from his trip.

I also just got in a Nakayama Asagi - a perfect stone for straight razors if you are going for a natural stone finish.

So on to compounds. Chromium oxide (0.5 microns with a wide variance in particle size) gives a reasonably good edge, but going to CBN 0.1 and then Poly crystalline diamond at 0.025 microns on Kangaroo strop will GREATLY improve the CRO edge.

How coarse should you go? Well it depends on the initial shape. In general it is rare to go to really coarse stones, but there are times when it is required. Setting a boundary at 8k shouldn't be a hard rule but a general guideline for maintaining a razor.


Here is an excellent video utilizing a Japanese Natural stone slurry enhanced with CBN - a fascinating state of the art approach.



---
Ken



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