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 Post subject: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
dear Mark, I am considering a couple of knives, a Konosuke white and a Moritaka Gyuto 240mm blue,

If I decide on the blue can you ensure I don't get an over or poorly ground one ? also are these things clad ? with the Kono is it very reactive BDL recommends not. ive got a carbonext, im guessing these are much more reactive. im after a knife that I can cut and leave for up to half an hour, im pretty good at drying and putting them away in that time frame, would white no 2 be okay ?

cheers Brendan apprentice knife freak



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:46 pm 
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If you are concerned about reactivity don't get a carbon steel knife. Try the Konosuke HD. They have about 7% chromium in them and they are really nice. The 240 HD2 Gyuto is one of our best selling knives on the site in it's price range. You will be able to walk away from it without worrying about it rusting.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:05 pm 
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If you are planning on leaving a knife for upto 1/2 an hour uncleaned, do not get the Moritaka for sure.

The Konosuke white MIGHT be okay...it would depend on what you left on it. Anything really acidic might rust it within that time. Don't know, never tried I guess.

Like Mark says, though, if you're concerned about it, get the HD....really great knife.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
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I think the Konosuke White #2 is a wonderful knife and recommend it highly.

Everything else being equal, White #2 is more reactive than AS, but the two aren't too different in that respect. They're both carbons, and need to be maintained as such. They must be rinsed and wiped immediately. If you leave them alone for thirty minutes, they won't melt or anything. But you'll end up spending quite a bit of time to clean them up when you do get them. It's not that carbon needs extra care, it's that it needs it NOW. DAMMIT.

It sounds like stainless or semi-stainless might be a better choice.

On the basis of your note to Mark it's impossible to tell if you want a laser or not. If you do, I'm going to guess that the Kono HD is a little out of your price range and suggest that you look at the Konosuke HH, Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless, and the Richmond Laser AEB-L.

I'm a carbon kinda guy, and other than the Fujiwara FKH, can't think of many "better" carbon, single steel knives I dislike. However, I'd choose the Kono White #2 over the Moritaka because I dislike san-mai; and dislike it so much can't be fair to san-mai knives in general. That doesn't mean I'm unconscious. Moritaka are not Takeda. If you want an AS kurouchi san-mai which only looks rustic but is actually extremely well finished, buy a Takeda.

Based on the optics of the situation as well as what I've heard from several of the players, the whole Moritaka over-grind issue seems to be based on three or four knives which developed an almost mythic status on the Kitchen Knife Forum.

The phenomenon looks like more like an overblown internet scandal than a common production problem; and appears to continue mostly as a way of expressing resentment at Mark because he's not Dave (Martell) or Jon (Broida). If that seems odd to you, ask your wife what eleven year old girls are like when they decide who can and cannot sit at their lunch table.

Grind issues or no grind issues... To the extent my opinion matters about these sorts of things, I wouldn't hesitate to order any knife from Mark. If there was something wrong, he'd make it right.

Finally, CKtG represents quite a few talented sharpeners. It's not a bad idea to spend an extra few bucks to make sure that whatever knife you ordered not only came to you with a perfectly finished (and much better than factory) edge but had been inspected by another set of critical and experienced eyes.

BDL


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:30 am 

Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 2
thank you all,

although I left my carbonext out all night covered in a mixture of vegie juices and sea salt this was actually very rare for me. Woke up after a great night and saw the carnage knife in the middle of it with rust spots from the salt crystals. anyway cleaned it up ok and its looking, well like a carbonext. Im really looking forward to owning a wa gyuto I had thought medium weight but laser might be okay, my skills are not that bad and I have to say I have a good degree of mechanical empathy despite me being occasionally a little side tracked. for instance I look after the carbonext well 99.9 present of the time. Id blame the Margaret river red a good fire and conversation for my slackness on that one occasion.

ive had the green light from my wife who doesn't really understand the enthusiasm I have for chefs knives herself but considers it harmless. I mentioned that I might make my own knife rack the other day and she said "just how many knives are you planning to get"? ....put right on the spot there.

anyway I have an interest in the rustic moritaka type knives as well as the highly finished laser types. So an honest answerer re how many knives might have been six or so. "good ones"at lest I don't collect cars or something expensive and as my wife says at least its not alcohol or anything bad. I simply love using my skills as part of creating a great meal. A good tennis player doesn't use crap racquets. having a good knife has added a new level of keenness to my cooking and that has spin offs for all.

Im pretty sure I will push the button on a konosuke HD 240 mm gyuto, I am a practical person though and really just want a good "go to" knife. if im taking the peal off a pineapple to put through the juicer, I don't want to have to worry about the knife to much, what do you think is the Kono in this bracket or is it the "sports car" of he knife rack that requires to much care to be a general "go to".

Brendan


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
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You don't have to baby a Kono.

The biggest problem with using a flexible knife on something like a heavy squash or pineapple is the possibility of binding it (because it racked or torqued in the cut) forcing it the rest of the way through and slamming the blade on the board. That's something everyone's done at one time or another, but it's more of a problem if you have a flexible knife and lack the skills to keep it straight. Fortunately for home cooks, having the time to take the time and not rush the cut, along with the focus to pay attention to what you're doing, are the most important parts of keeping a knife straight.

Okay, so... let's give the battle of Laser vs. Pineapple some real world context.

When I prep a meal, I seldom use more than a big and a small knife; more often just a big one; which is bound to be one sort of chef's or another. Among them are a 300mm Kono HD suji I use as a gyuto and a 270mm Kono HD gyuto which, fearless innovator that I am, I also use as a gyuto. If prep involves as much heavy duty stuff as a single pineapple, Konosukes be damned. I'm reaching for the 52100 Ultimatum. It's not that I can't cut a pineapple with a Kono; but why?

Like future you, I've got enough knives that when its horses for courses, I can always find one I like.

Even if it's not the perfect knife for every task, a laser as good as a Konosuke HD is one of life's brass rings. Grab it.

BDL


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:05 am 

Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 2
beaudy BDL,

I think your right. im not working under the same pressure as in a restaurant kitchen. plenty of time to cut straight with a sharp laser. moreover I use my 270 carbonext for everything at the moment anyway and its 2.5 mm at the spine. the HD 240 mm will be fine as the funy profile is also 2.5mm at the spine, given the shorter blade it might be a little more rigid at any rate ?. I considered selling the 270 carbonext and going for a 270 kono (once hooked on good knives) but im sure ill use the 240 kono (funy profile) even if it wont be as good as the 270 at times.

I sharpen my knifes as soon as they dull so I don't have to push to hard anyway actually I usually give it a swipe on a steel once or twice to bring the edge up before taking it to a 8000 grit stone. would you recommend that I use a steel with the kono HD ?

thanks again Brendan
from sunny Queensland


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:10 am 
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POTATO <> I suggest against steeling your HD. Strop on the 8k when you need to true her. And I will reiterate, you don't have to baby a HD. Respect her, yes; baby, no...

We have a classified section here to sell your 270 Carbo, FYI.http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/classifieds-f16.html We do have a 50 post rule, but we can make exceptions when warranted.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke white #2 vs Moritaka gyuto
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:15 am 
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"The phenomenon looks like more like an overblown internet scandal than a common production problem; and appears to continue mostly as a way of expressing resentment at Mark because he's not Dave (Martell) or Jon (Broida). If that seems odd to you, ask your wife what eleven year old girls are like when they decide who can and cannot sit at their lunch table."

+ 1000 Moritaka does make some great knives, but for leaving them laying around wet for half an hour without cleaning and drying this isn't the right environment.

No personal experience with the Konosuke HD, but from all reports it sounds like a great choice.

---
Ken



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