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 Post subject: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hello,

I recently became aware of your site and I very impressed with your selection and customer support. I found your site when I was looking for stropping solutions for my EdgePro, I love the polishing tapes but like the idea of stropping. I have a strop-bat but just cannot seem to get the hang of free-hand stropping. So, in browsing your site I have run into a few questions before I make my order.

Some of my original EP stones are rather concave, is there a coarse stone that would work for both levelling my EP stones, and to use as a coarse grit stone on my EP? Like this but ideally in the 1" width, http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dmt2x6diplfo.html
Is a quality high grit stone, like the Chosera 2,000 grit stone, going to provide the same result as the 2,000 grit polishing tape? And if so, would you recommend the Chosera or the Shapton in the ~2000 grit range?
I was thinking that one of your Kangaroo leather strops for the EP, combined with some 3 micron dia-paste might be another good alternative, would this provide a similar experience to the 2,000 grit polishing tape?

I am really looking for a solution for:

Touching up my edge and maintaining that "just sharpened" cutting ability.
And, a coarse stone that will set the angle quickly on hard steels, not concave, and could help to level my existing stones.

Any recommendations you have would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to my order.

Thanks for your time.
Alex



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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Location: USA... mostly.
ALEX <> I am not an EP guy so I will refrain from commenting too much on this topic, but the Atoma diamond plates are the premium plates out there for flattening stones & resetting bevel/chip repair. They are custom cut for the edge pro, as well. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/diplforedpro.html

Regarding the tape vs. Chosera. The Chosera will leave a more refined finish as the slurry will refine down beyond 2K the more you work it. The tape will not generate that mud.

I'll leave the nuance stuff for MadRookie and the other EP guys...



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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
My preference is a 3" x 8" DMT for flattening my EP stones. (If I had a full size Atoma I'd use that. Eventually one will replace my DMT.) The 2" x 6" will work though and you can use it for grinding new bevels and such. I don't the the 1" Atomas are a very viable choice for flattening other EP stones though. I tried it out once when I first got my Atoma 140 for the EP, while it could be done, I didn't like it for that job.


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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:34 am 
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If you want the best of both worlds for use on the EP then the 1x6/2x6 EP mounted Atoma plates are the answer.

However, 1x6/2x6 is a bit tight for space when lapping another 1x6 stone - personally I have used the large DMT plates, but prefer by far the 3x8 Atoma plates I currently use.

Yes, it is costly - but worth every cent in the sharpening game.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:26 am 
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I just got done making a BUNCH of stones for the EP - primarily Nubatamas but also Shapton and Choceras and 10k and 12k Superstones.

And flattening EVERY one of them. I'd estimate that's about 300 stones. Several DAYS of stone flattening straight. What do I use to flatten them? A 3x8" Atoma 140 plate. I used my plate on everything from the 15,000 Nubatama Bamboo stone to 1000 Grit Speckled Ume in two different hardnesses down to the ultra coarse 24 grit Nubatama Ume Aratae stone. And many inbetween.

And my 140 Atoma is still going strong.

I've used this same plate without replacing it for similar sized sessions too many times to remember. And again it is still going strong.

NOTHING comes close to this Atoma for holding up AND NOT sticking to the stones when flattening.

Most especially if you flatten both EP sized stones as well as full sized stones and are interested in getting a 'rock solid' foundation for your sharpening kit. I have gone through several DMT XXC plates. Over time the Atoma pays for itself in lower cost of ownership and ease of use.

For the EP - and WEPS, the Atoma plates are the best solution out there as Mad Rookie and most everyone else who has used them will testify. In terms of time saved reprofiling edges, if time is money, they solve the problem, especially for abrasion resistant steels. Available in 1x6" sized and also a 3/4" width for those working on recurved blades or who just want to save a few $$. Contact me directly for the narrower width.

---
Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Ken123: After using the Atoma 140 to flatten a high grit stone like the 15k Nube, do you further smooth the latter with a higher grit plate, or is it ready for use as is ?

Someone recently recommended 'partner rubbing' stones against their next coarser grit (in whatever collection a given user has handy) as a final step after flattening on the Atoma, and it sounded very logical to me, but I'd be curious to know your prefs are, as someone who cuts stones for a living.


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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:48 am 
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My first criteria for finishing a stone is to get it 'square' so the sides are parallel to each other. I have a proprietary process for doing this. After that, the next task is to get the surface flat (and clean up the edges or bevel them if necessary). For this I use the Atoma 140. For general preparation, this is adequate. I would use a 1200 Atoma for this stone to improve the well flattened stone's surface texture for my own use. I would not use another coarser stone for this task. I'm a purist here. First of all, one 10k stone (next coarsest stone) and the next have different properties. For a most unique stone like the Nubatama 15k, I absolutely would not risk cross contamination with a coarser grit stone - even say a 10k Nubatama. Now as a stone cutter I do have the advantage of having a piece of 15k Nubatama that I can use as a tomonagura for my 15k Nubatama full sized stone or EP sized 15k Nubatama, so that would impart the perfect texture.

In particular - and thanks for suggesting this interesting example, the 15k Nubatama imparts a natural stone like finish - moreso than a 10k Nubatama and certainly a totally different finish than the high contrast non differentiating finish of Shapton or Chocera stones. So for me I certainly wouldn't use a coarser stone for this. Or even a finer 30k Shapton (pro or gs).

Now this is my opinion, and not one shared by any number of sharpeners at various skill levels. For instance a natural Ohmura stone has been used as a stone flattener for naturals starting back long before diamond plates were available. And pre-diamond plates, there was little choice but to use stones for flattening stones. Traditionally one would use 3 stones of the same grit flattening one A against B, B against C and C against A. This is an ideal approach for flattening a 60 or 24 grit stone or flattening a stone flattener, although it is a bit much to get 3 stone flatteners.

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Ken



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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:00 pm 
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... a natural Ohmura stone has been used as a stone flattener for naturals starting back long before diamond plates were available. And pre-diamond plates, there was little choice but to use stones for flattening stones. Traditionally one would use 3 stones of the same grit flattening one A against B, B against C and C against A. This is an ideal approach for flattening a 60 or 24 grit stone or flattening a stone flattener, although it is a bit much to get 3 stone flatteners.

Ah, a cool piece of old historical technique ... a grandfather-father-son pattern rotation. Makes perfect sense. There are parallels for that sort of thing in statistical analysis and noise reduction technology - interesting to see the same phenom used for something as simple and time worn (pun intended) as smoothing & trueing stones together.


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 Post subject: Re: Flattening my EP Stones
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:15 am 
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" ... parallels for that sort of thing in statistical analysis and noise reduction technology"

Indulge me. I'm actually really interested in some more detail here and have some background in those areas. Are you thinking of signal averaging or something more elaborate?

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Ken



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