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 Post subject: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 9
I am curious about the Masazumi line of knives. The 210mm Gyuto describes the steel as "Sandvik swedish stainless carbon steel". However, the description of all the other Masazumi knives say it is just Swedish Carbon Steel (not stainless). Is the steel on the 210mm different or is that a typo? If its a typo, does the Sandvik steel fall into one of the semi-stainless types or is it just normal carbon steel?

It is further confusing because some searches find people comparing this to the Misono UX10 and I saw Mark say this had AEB-L steel. (see this thread below)

post11939.html?hilit=Masazumi#p11939

I just want to know for sure what the 210mm knife is made of.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 625
Location: Philippines
probably more along the lines of the misono swedish carbon series. but i can't say for sure. i do own a misono swedish and it's quite reactive, but once you set a patina you're pretty much set. until you sharpen it again and expose more fresh steel.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 9
"probably more along the lines of the misono swedish carbon series. but i can't say for sure. i do own a misono swedish and it's quite reactive."


That's what my gut tells me, but back in December, Mark said the it was AEB-L. Perhaps he was just confused about the new line at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 625
Location: Philippines
mark had it wrong, he was the one that said that it was more like the swedish carbon that misono uses.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 9
It seems that not many have used these knives so far. I'd be curious if the Masazumi is very reactive like the Misono (which has a reputation for being more reactive than most)? If that's the case, I'll probably lean towards something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
Not sure which sandvik steel is used, but i beleive most sandvik steels can ne comparable to aeb-l.

Sandvik 13c26 is nearly identical to boehlers aeb-l. Orginal designed for razors. Old timer as far as knife steels, but very pure steel with no large carbides... takes a great edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
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The Masazumi steel is carbon, aka, non-stainless. It is Swedish, which generally means a higher level of purity, and that they take a finer edge, but the real big kicker I find with Swedish steels is that the high level of purity allows them to be hardened a little bit harder without becoming chippy.

This steel is comparable to Masamoto HC in my opinion, and I'd even dare to say it's the same alloy. Really good stuff, I could grind it a little bit and maybe give you my opinion on carbon content, but then again I believe the knife I have is just a tester and needs to go back. I could always round the spine and see what happens. (BTW, in case you didn't know, when grinding carbon steel it will make a shower of sparks, unlike stainless which barely sparks, and the more carbon you have will generally make longer sparks, not to mention the 'pop' really cool at the end, like a sparkler) I doubt I'm truly good enough to pinpoint it yet, but I hear that experience blacksmiths can tell you quite easily. I do have experience with a few steels, just not a bunch (yet). ;)

So, expect this steel to take high refinement (Mine took 4k like it was nothing) and a very steep edge (10 degrees per side). It has good toughness as well. If I had to compare it to a Hitachi steel, I'd say it's probably a little bit better than Blue #2, or at least ballpark.

And BTW, AEB-L doesn't just take a good edge; Along with White #1 you can argue it takes the BEST edge. (yeah Adam, I did that for you!) :mrgreen: hehe



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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
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This was my fault. When I first bought them they were sold to me as Swedish steel and I ASSUMED they were stainless. The copy mistake was a leftover from that mistake. I fixed it.



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 Post subject: Re: Clarification on Masazumi?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 217
If you take all the people in the world who know more than a scintilla about knife steel alloys and put them in a room, I'd be out of town.

The term Swedish Steel as used by Japanese hamono (makers and sellers) usually means one of three things. (A) The iron ore was mined from the very pure Sandvic deposit; (B) The ore was both mined at Sandvic AND made into steel by Bohler Uddeholm or Sandvik; or (C) It's used a generic for steel made by anyone from very pure iron mined anywhere.

13C26 is made by Sandvik; AEB-L is made by Uddeholm. Otherwise, the alloys are, for all practical purposes, identical. I believe the formula was a co-development. Both Sandvik and Uddeholm make lots of different steel alloys, some are close analogs of alloys made by the other, including 19C27 and AEB-H, but some are not.

Misono gets the alloy the Sweden series from Sandvik. It's a proprietary formula, not available in the Sandvik catalog. I don't believe Uddeholm produces anything at all like it, but don't know for sure. Whatever it is, it's very reactive. Since the Masazumi alloy is considerably less reactive (or so we're given to understand), we can infer that it's not the same stuff found in a Misono Sweden.

I believe -- but am not sure -- the carbon alloys Masamoto uses for its CT and HC series are Takefu V series, and are made in Japan.

The most common element added to increase the toughness of carbon steel alloys is chromium. Nickel is probably second, but don't quote me. Some carbon steels have both. Molybdenum is nearly always added to modern stainless steels for the same purpose. You occasionally see moly in carbon steels, and even more occasionally chrome and moly (e.g., Hitachi AS).

Hope this helps,
BDL


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