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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 217
+1 with Melampus.

Also:
  • Everything else being equal, a longer knife has a lower proportion of belly. That means the knife won't require the same amount of handle pumping to "rock chop," and is better suited to "push cutting," and the classic, silent, French, gliding action; and
  • The knife stays usably sharp longer in the sense that you can find sharp spots on long knives, long after a shorter knife would have lost its edge along the entire length.

More:
  • Making the "adjustment" to a longer knife is almost entirely a matter of improving your grip and position. Things which don't take long, and things you should do anyway.

BDL


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:19 pm
Posts: 62
I totally agree about a larger knife in a working environment -- and even for most decent home cooks. I do think there's a place for a 6" chef, though -- can be a nice quick light prep knife. Despite having lots of different options, my wife still prefers her 6" Wusthof, and I'm still looking for the perfect Japanese substitute for her. Most of the petties are too slender to use well on a board, santokus don't have as good of a tip, and she doesn't like a larger knife. I'll probably end up getting her a Carter funayuki in that size, since he's one of the few who splits the difference between petty and gyuto. The Asai 160mm petty looks good in that range, too.

But, still -- I agree that for a commercial kitchen, you'll be much happier with more blade on your primary prep knife.


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:15 am
Posts: 93
ok now you guys got me looking into richmond lasers, masakage yukis, and konasuke hd. what are the major differences between these? for a 240 or 270mm gyuto


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 1502
The Masakage is far different than the Konos and the Lasers, which are much closer together.

While all knives are of near equal thickness behind the edge (all very thin), the grind, finish, and steel on each is different.

The Laser and HD knives are much closer together in grind and finish. HD is semi-stainless, Laser AS is stainless clad over carbon core (as well as the Masakage), Laser AEB-L is full stainless.

The Masakage will probably weigh the most of the bunch, followed by the Laser AS, then Kono and Laser AEB-L. The Masakage is still only a middle-weight knife.

All 3 are very very good performing knives, so I think you should look at the environmental factors to make your decision if fit and finish haven't helped you decide yet.



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:11 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:15 am
Posts: 93
ok another thing i should mention is i don't know much about sharpening but i would think that since the steel on these knives are stronger i shouldn't need to sharpen often right? maybe once a year if that? i was also looking at the goko gyuto. what are enviromental factors? and what do you mean by finish?


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:12 am 
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Location: USA... mostly.
ORGANIK <> There is quite a bit that could be touched upon in direct reply, but I don't have the energy. I will pick at it... ;)

"Stronger" is a relative term; harder, most JK are in relation to European/American. With hard steel comes a brittle nature. Beginners can "destroy" a JK in 30 seconds... therefore requiring sharpening much sooner than 12 months. Drop a JK, it will nearly invariably chip... how much & where is the question. Sharpening your knives will be entirely dependent upon how they are treated, and how sharp you like your working edge to be. If you cut with them properly, store them properly, and strop them regularly... you should be able to go a good while before you need a sharpening.. assuming this is casual home use.

"Environmental factors" reference just that: are you in a professional environment, a residential environment, a salty environment, a humid environment? Different steels present unique factors that can be deciding points.

A knife "finish" can be a misty Kasumi, can be a hammered Tsuchime, can be a damascus Suminagashi, etc...



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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 1502
I'm so mad at myself for not asking you to fill out this questionnaire at first, could have solved a lot of problems quick:

1. Are you right handed?
2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..)
3. What size knife are you looking for?
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel?
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle?
6. How much did you want to spend?
7. Do you know how to sharpen?


We try to make sure people answer all these questions before trying to make a decision, it just makes the whole process easier for everyone. My fault, I jumped the gun without asking first. Anyhow, I believe we've answered all these questions by now.

If you don't sharpen, or sharpen often, I'm recommending you get a stainless knife. AEB-L would be a great choice for you. The AEB-L Richmond Laser will smoke any knife your buddies have and will be a knife you'll want to keep for a long time. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/laser.html

Yes, it's $30 over your price range.... you'll want to spend it, trust me. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:15 am
Posts: 93
Awesome! What's the difference between the Richmond and the masakage yukis?


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 217
Awesome! What's the difference between the Richmond and the masakage yukis?

Quite a bit.

The Richmond Laser is a laser, which means it's very thin and very light. The Masakage is not. It's not exactly a heavyweight "mighty gyuto," but it's no feather either. If you follow boxing, as wa-gyuto go, it's a "super middle."

The Richmond is thin all over, the Masakage is thick at the spine, but is thin enough behind the edge to minimize wedging.

The Richmond Laser is a single steel knife. The Yuki is san-mai. These differences mean that the Yuki will be somewhat stiffer, but will lack the "live" feeling of the Richmond. The Yuki's hagane is more prestigious than the Laser's alloy; but unless and until you develop some serious sharpening skills, I wouldn't worry too much about that one way or the other.

The Yuki's White #2 hagane is nominally hardened to 62-63RCH, which is a harder number than you usually see published for White #2. But there are a lot of reasons to thing that if it actually is harder, it's not going to make much difference in the greater scheme of things.

The Laser is AEB-L, properly hardened to 61RCH ish. AEB-L has excellent edge taking and holding properties. The laser geometry of the Richmond enhances them.

The Yuki's jigane is kurouchi finished stainless. It has a somewhat rustic overall appearance. The Laser is stainless all over, with a "natural" finish. Laser F&F is generally very good; but if you buy one don't be surprised to see tool marks on the blade.

If you want a medium weight, medium thick knife with a rustic finish, and like san-mai construction the Masakage is a good deal. If you want a stainless laser, the Richmond is the value leader in its class.

I like lasers, and don't like san-mai. But I'm not you.

BDL


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 Post subject: Re: shun 6 inch chef knife
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:10 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 104
It seems like buying a really nice knife for working in a kitchen could be a bad idea because it might get thrashed or used by the wrong person.


I bring thousands of dollars to work everyday and NO ONE touches my knives without my permission. The same goes with me. If someone brings there personal knife to work then I respect it as I would my own and do not use it unless I am in a pinch and have their full permission.

As for the knife suggestions... I am finishing culinary school and I have learned that my professors do not know a fraction about knives, blades, or sharpening than most of the people on this forum. They are using Shuns because they have not used or learned about the many options available to them... Think about where the easiest places to buy knives... Bed Bath and Beyond.. William Sonoma... a restaurant wholesaler, a local purveyor.. You are not going to find a Konosuke or Masakage or Richmond Laser at any of those... Before buying any of the knives I would spend a lot of time watching the sharpening videos and purchase an inexpensive Tojiro to learn how to sharpen... You can find a knife that will probably out perform a Shun (once you learn how to sharpen it) for less than $75...and that includes shipping... once you got sharpening down then you are ready for the Kono's, Masakage, and Lasers...

I hope that helps..


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