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 Post subject: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:31 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 189
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
I don't much care for the time period of breaking-in a diamond sharpening stone. I have intentionally used a slicing knife that has a flat edge (no belly) to make sure I get the entire surface broken in with some consistancy. I'm wondering if lapping water stones will effectivly and speedily break-in the diamonds? Has anyone triedd this on higher grit diamond stones than you would normally use as a lapping stone? Fine or extra fine for example?

THanks for any help.


Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:16 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 165
Yep. From recent forum experience I can tell you it's fine.

And I can tell you one more little thing with absolute, 100%, gut-lock-cinch, no-question-about-it, complete certainty: you do NOT want to use a diamond plate to break in a diamond plate.

I've been checking the relevant obituary columns the last few days to see if a certain knife nut is listed after I asked THAT question. I was afraid I had given him a heart attack.

At least I finally did take the paper bag off my head.

So far, so good on the obiturary columns.


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:03 am 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 189
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
Raibeaux wrote:Yep. From recent forum experience I can tell you it's fine.

And I can tell you one more little thing with absolute, 100%, gut-lock-cinch, no-question-about-it, complete certainty: you do NOT want to use a diamond plate to break in a diamond plate.

I've been checking the relevant obituary columns the last few days to see if a certain knife nut is listed after I asked THAT question. I was afraid I had given him a heart attack.

At least I finally did take the paper bag off my head.

So far, so good on the obiturary columns.


Since you mentioned it, a couple of years ago I was told by a highly placed person at DMT to break in my new EF stone using my F grit stone under running water. Well, after about 5 seconds of very light rubbing together 50% of the diamond surface was gone from the EF stone. They replaced the stone because I had been following their advice. I'm glad you mentioned it because I had just about forgotten about it. Hopefully you have kept someone else from this mistake. I don't think DMT would replace the stone unless it was damaged by following their advice. I also hope they don't tell anyone else to do this.

Thanks for your help on the using water stones for breaking in the stones also.


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 1552
If you want to break in a diamond plate, simply flatten a few stones with it, or run a piece of scrap steel over the surface (aka sharpen a beater blade, butter knife, or nothing) just to get the really big nasty diamonds off, which they're going to break off fast anyways. They purposely saturate the surface with diamonds to make sure you get them in there. So really, breaking in a diamond plate is as simple as lapping your coarsest stone for a few minutes... DONE!

Don't overthink it, breaking it in is really just a precaution if you're going to do a knife on it right out of the box. A new diamond plate out of the box will completely destroy any steel that gets in its path, aka you better have really steady hands if you're going to use it right away or goodbye finish and/or edge. Atoma plates are far better than DMT, that's why they're more expensive. That being said, I own a DMT, and love it. I want an Atoma though. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:00 am 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 189
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
Knife Fanatic wrote:If you want to break in a diamond plate, simply flatten a few stones with it, or run a piece of scrap steel over the surface (aka sharpen a beater blade, butter knife, or nothing) just to get the really big nasty diamonds off, which they're going to break off fast anyways. They purposely saturate the surface with diamonds to make sure you get them in there. So really, breaking in a diamond plate is as simple as lapping your coarsest stone for a few minutes... DONE!

Don't overthink it, breaking it in is really just a precaution if you're going to do a knife on it right out of the box. A new diamond plate out of the box will completely destroy any steel that gets in its path, aka you better have really steady hands if you're going to use it right away or goodbye finish and/or edge. Atoma plates are far better than DMT, that's why they're more expensive. That being said, I own a DMT, and love it. I want an Atoma though. ;)


I'd like to get the Atoma stones for the EP. For bench stones though I'll stick with DMT because I only use bench stones for touching up edges or anything short of reprofiling. I use the EP for an edge that needs a lot of work and I'd love the Atoma's for that. I've been using DMT products for about 5 years and they are great even though the Atomas are better according to what everyone says that has used both.


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Posts: 160
Wow, I'm really glad I read this one AFTER i took my Tojiro DP to my DMT Course, then fine. Thats okay because I expect an Ozuku to be delivered today and I will go to town on some knives again. How do you feel about a progression from DMT to Shapton Glass to Jnat?


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:08 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 189
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
Jack wrote:Wow, I'm really glad I read this one AFTER i took my Tojiro DP to my DMT Course, then fine. Thats okay because I expect an Ozuku to be delivered today and I will go to town on some knives again. How do you feel about a progression from DMT to Shapton Glass to Jnat?


I'm about to find out how a fine grit DMT progression to either a 2k or 6k Shapton glass works. I should get the DMT stone today and will flatten my 2k and 6k with it to break it in. Once it's broken in and is performing consistantly I was hoping to go from the F grit DMT to the Shapton stones. Otherwise I'd have gotten the EF DMT stone. I wanted the F DMT for quick touchups when a more refined edge isn't needed but if I want to smooth the edge I'll use the Shapton glass stones. I really wish I had the 8k Shapton glass bench stone but I don't (yet). I have the 8k Shapton glass EP size and love it. I do have the 6" DMT stones XC - EF and could have tried the progression already but I didn't try it during one session. Just remembering how they perform makes me think going from a F grit DMT to the Shapton glass will be a good progression. I'm thinking for the coarser grits I wouldn't need the SHapton glass, saving me some money but at the higher grits they would perform better than the DMT. This is an assumption and I may be wrong. Also, being as lazy as I am I like being able to just take out a DMT stone for touch ups since you don't have to use water if you don't want to. The F DMT will put a somewhat toothy very sharp edge and sometimes that's what you want or all you need. I thinkd it's about perfect for EDC pocket knives.

This is just my opinion but I'm not nearly as experienced with different stones as a lot of the people here.


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Well, I'll say it like this. Jumping from very coarse diamonds straight to anything above 500 grit is tricky, unless you want a seriously scratchy bevel, not to mention the weird burr/edge weakness issues you run into if you over-do the diamonds. I personally try to stay away from diamonds unless there some kind of SERIOUS metal removal needing done, and I usually just break out my little belt sander for that stuff. Doing knives on diamond is no problems as long as you know when to stop and how to get rid of the scratches.

Other than that, yes, you can switch from Shaptons to the Ozuku asagi (which is a VERY high grit finisher, 15k+ range). I recommend you going to at least 4k before switching to the Ozuku. You want to have a semi-mirror, or hazy-mirror before getting to the Ozuku for best results. I used to finish razors on the Ozuku before moving to the strops. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Posts: 160
I would like to emphasize that there are 2 people names Jack involved in tis thread


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 Post subject: Re: Using water stones to break-in a diamond stone?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:57 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 189
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
Jack wrote:I would like to emphasize that there are 2 people names Jack involved in tis thread



Who is the other one? :)

I got the fine grit DMT stone and after trying to break it in it leaves a scratch pattern the is a little deeper than I want to start with a 2k stone. I think a 1k or even 500 would be needed but haven't tried them yet. So, my initial plan may not work. Oh well, not the first time that happened. :) The DMT stone may get a little less aggressive if it gets more broken in but I'm not sure. It doesn't feel near as aggressive now as it did with the first stroke so I think it's pretty close to the break in period being done. Breaking in the stone with water stones did help with this so thanks to all for the help.

Has anyone used the EEF DMT stones? I got one of the DMT EEF stones with the holes in the surface (4" stone) and it never did break in to the point it was finer than my EF grit. I could get a nicely finished bevel with the EF stone then use the EEF and the scratch pattern was much deeper again. I'd say I spent several hours over a few days trying to break this stone in with no success. Maybe the continuous surface stones are better with the EEF grit but I've never tried one. Just curious though because I'm going to use the Shapton's for this grit range.


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