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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:11 am
Posts: 77
Like this newb. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:09 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
I was just about to ask about the Naniwas. They seem good bang for buck at least. Was thinking say 1K -10K. Do you think 12K is overkill?


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 2763
I love my Naniwa 10k Superstone. I liked it more and felt it left a finer edge than the 12k Superstone.

I've not used many of the other Superstones.



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:25 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
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Do you use graduations as you sharpen (as in 1K then 3K etc) or just straight to 10K superstone?


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:12 pm 
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I use

500 Bester if needed
1000 Ume
Suehiro Rika
10,000 Superstone



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:33 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
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Ah I see. So do you use a 120 grit to flatten the 500 and the 1000 Ume to flatten the other/higher grits? Or do you use another 1K grit to flatten the others?

I was considering the 5 pc sharpening kit and the 10K superstone and another 1K stone. Possibly the 1000 Ume like yourself for sharpening and the Bester 1200 possibly to sharpen and/or flatten the other stones.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 217
Me:
  • Beston 500. profiling;
  • Bester 1200, medium coarse, first burr, chase burr;
  • Chosera 3K, medium fine, second burr, chase second burr;
  • Gesshin 8K, polish; and
  • Flatten everything with a DMT XXC, dressing each stone with the one with the each stone one step lower, and one step higher.

But, for anyone who wants to keep their sharpening costs down to levels resembling something close to sanity, consider:
  • Marks inexpensive diamond plate as a flattener over the DMT XXC;
  • Naniwa SS 3K or Suehiro Rika over the Chosera (which I got from a friend for a HUGE discount); and
  • Naniwa Pure White or Kitayama over the Gesshin (or over the Chosera 10K for that matter).

Obviously, there are a lot of really wonderful stones besides those I've listed. Mark handles a bunch of them; more, maybe, than anyone else; and this is a great place to get to say that.

I don't want it to seem like I'm arguing or disagreeing with Adam when I'm not. So...

Just another opinion, from someone who knows less:
I've got a lot of time on the SS 8K and 10K stones, and used an SS 8K for the past couple of years until replacing it (because it wore out, not for dislike). While the SS finishers are very good -- they aren't for everyone. You have to be careful not to over-soak and to make sure you dry them gradually and out of the sun, or they will crack and craze. That's true of most water stones, Naniwa SS and Chosera in particular, and SS fine stones in spades.

If the other SS are soft (they are), the 8K and 10K are very, very soft. They don't dish particularly easily, but they provide an almost mushy-soft feel when you sharpen. This isn't a problem for someone who's comfortable with, say a Shapton Pro 5K, but some people feel it interferes with feedback, and a few find it unpleasant.

Saving the worst for last, their biggest problem, also a product of how soft they are, is that they gouge very, very easily. So easily that for most sharpeners annoying, and tedious to fix gouging is not a matter of if, but of how bad and how often.

BDL


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I use a DMT XXC to flatten most of my stones. I will use a 1k to smooth the surface of the 10k SS though.



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 217
oops


Last edited by boar_d_laze on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Adam Marr wrote:I use a DMT XXC to flatten most of my stones. I will use a 1k to smooth the surface of the 10k SS though.

As I said, I use the XXC for everything. But after flattening, I rinse my stones and use the 500 to dress the 1.2K, 1.2K to dress the 3K, and the 3K to dress the 8K. This not only smooths out the scratch marks left by the diamond plate it also gets the mud going.

It's not a bad thing to use something smoother than the XXC on your finest stones; as long as you know why.

It's natural for newbies to think a smooth surface is important on a fine water stone. It really isn't. With water stones, it's the mix of binder and friable abrasive which comes off the surface that sharpens and/or polishes the knife. As long as the surface is flat enough to allow the knife to travel smoothly, it's flat enough to go -- even the finest polishing stones.

Beginning with mud, even mixed with mud from the next lower stone, speeds the sharpening process. Some people use little diamond plates to get the mud going, but they don't work any better than the "previous" stones. Naguras leave nagura mud, which looks great but is too soft to do much actual good.

Just another good way,
BDL


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