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 Post subject: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7656
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hello,

Over the last year or so I've really gotten into J knives and have been using my edgepro to put an edge on them. I purchased a masamoto KS 240 gyuto from you a month or so ago and it arrived screaming sharp and shaved hair effortlessly etc. I also purchased the full range of chosera stones and an angle cube from you. Ive been sharpening the edge exactly 12 degrees per side (24 inclusive) and after finishing with the 10k grit chosera although the knife is very sharp, its not shave the hair on your arm sharp, and thats the edge Im chasing. Is this user error when sharpening or do I need to go farther with the grits to get that kind of edge? What should I purchase if thats the case?


Also, Im anxiously awaiting the next shipment from konosuke to arrive in your shop, another gyuto and a honsuki are in my near future!


Thanks for your help

Chad



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Mark Richmond
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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:34 am 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Chad,

Thanks for the question. Do you mind if I post this on our forum? I'll remove your last name. There are several pro sharpeners that use the machine and I'm sure they can help you. I'll post some comments too.

There may be some technique issues when you use the machine. You should be able to shave pretty easily with the stones you have.

Are you checking the edge and adjusting the angle to match the edge with a sharpie on the first stone?
Do you use a drill stop collar and adjust between stones?
Do you check your edges with a magnifier?

Kind Regards

Mark Richmond



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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:44 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 47
Thanks for taking the time to help me get this sorted.


To answer your questions

1. In the beginning I did use the sharpie trick to match the edge, but it was closer to 15 degrees per side and I was not quite satisfied with the edge after sharpening it to that angle again on my own. I since took it down to 12 per side and have not resharpened since

2. I am NOT using the drill stop collar although I do own one. The drill stop collar is great, but with the apex system its not workable to use the stop collar with a 12 degree angle, the min angle I can get is about 13.5 degrees with the collar on. and the stone spaced etc. I am using the angle cube with every single stone to make sure its exactly 12 degrees though.

3. I am also not using a magnifier to look at the edges. I dont even know what to look for TBH, but it sounds as though my next purchase should be a loop and I should do some research on what I should be looking for under magnification.


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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:46 am 

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 am
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Sounds to me, from my little expierence that you might not be stoning until you have a full burr, with each stone. A magnifier is also very important.. Just a guess...


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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:52 pm 

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 11:12 am
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Something is clearly askew. I am NOT an Edge Pro owner (although I have been convinced to pick one up, so will be able to chime in with more educated advice in the near future). But I can probably, and safely say this: 10,000 is plenty sufficient for arm-shaving sharp or kitchen sharp. I do all my work freehand and can acheive very sharp results with stones much lower than even 10,000. Truth be told, I use a 2,000 green brick for the bulk of my touch up sharpenings and very often I will leave it at that. Occassionally, I will bump up to the 4k or the 8k (Shapton Glass) but rarely do I even bother on the 16k. I find in most cases that the green brick seems to get me most of what I need in the kitchen; Though I will often follow with the 4k or 8k. With either of those two stones, I can get a sharp as is practicable. How sharp? Can hold the end of the handle of a small petty (Moritaka) and with the slightest of pull, have it slide/fall through a tomato.... Also, the edges seem to last a very long time. Oh, and I am sharpening at about 15 degrees, perhaps a bit less on some knives 12 ish.

If it were my guess, something is happening with your angles as you change stones. Use a 2k first then see how sharp your knife is. You should be well on your way even with that stone....


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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Ok, more questions.

Are you getting a perceptable burr when you sharpen on the low grit stones?
I assume you are deburring the knife? If yes, how and when do you deburr?

There's a chance that you are not grinding an edge. Especially if you are going from a wider angle to a steeper angle. The key way to check for this are observation (get a loupe) or feeling for a burr on the lower to middle stones. Once you know you are grinding an edge on both sides and those sides are meeting at a point, the only thing in your way is a burr. Once you remove that you should have a sharp knife and then it's just a matter of refining it a bit before it's screaming sharp.



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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Are you getting a perceptable burr when you sharpen on the low grit stones?
I assume you are deburring the knife? If yes, how and when do you deburr?






I am able to drag my fingers towards the edge on the opposite side of the side I just sharpened and feel it catch a litle, and from the reading Ive done I think that means Im getting a proper burr?

As for burr removal, I pull the knife through the felt deburring block between every stone, is there a step Im missing?

Sorry for all the questions but Im really new to knife sharpening and have never had anyone really show me the right way.


Im getting a pretty sharp edge that can push cut paper etc, but I know its not nearly as sharp as it could be because it doesnt just pop the hair off my arm like it did when it was fresh out of the box .


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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:27 pm
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Location: Herentals, Belgium
Do you strop on anything after the 10k? Doesn't matter if it's freehand or with the EP.

I do one edge leading stroke on each side when I finish on a stone do degrade the burr before using a felt or balsa block.



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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:39 pm 
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It sounds from your answers that you are doing a pretty good job with the machine. If you're push cutting paper easily and you want to get it shaving sharp take Michiel's suggestion and add a strop or two to your progression. I use boron carbide on balsa followed by chromium oxide on balsa and you get a big improvement in shaving sharpness by doing this. Diamond sprays work equally as well.



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 Post subject: Re: How to improve results with Edge Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:39 am 
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I think it was an issue with the burr. I took my 10 k stone out again, gave it a quick leading edge stroke down the length of the blade on each side of the knife and pulled it through the block a couple of times again.

I now have no more arm hair.


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