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 Post subject: Suisin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:14 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Mark/Sue

I'll very likely buy a gyuto as soon as I decide which one. I've got the bug! Can't see myself buying from anybody else so I'll direct my questions accordingly. Please bear with me - I promise this won't be as long a story as it may appear for the moment.

Not a professional but I cook quite a bit. Right now, it doesn't have anything to do with cooking but rather having an extremely sharp knife. However, when that craziness is gone it will be about cooking once again. I have made my mind that I want an octagon handle and Japanese characters on the blade - engraved if possible. Oh, and I want a saya.

OK - here are the questions:

What makes the Suisin stainless Honyaki worth the extra over say...that 'extra hardened' stainless Yusuke on Ebay?

What's the difference in functionality of a carbon blade vs a stainless blade with the same hardness - other than carbon requires attention beyond that of stainless.

Wil



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:19 pm 
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We sell the Yusukes too. They're not really in the same league. The Suisins use 19C27 with excellent fit and finish, very nice grinds, excellent heat treatment and excellent handles and include a saya. They're great knives but they are expensive.

Carbon steels can't be grouped together easily. You need to take them one by one and even then you have to consider how they're heat treated (which is nearly impossible) and how the blades are ground to get a feel for how well a knife will perform. It's complicated but much easier if you say "compare this knife to that knife....". Then, if I or others have tried them both we can make comparisons that make sense.

A really good knife that you should consider is the Konosuke HD Gyuto. It's a great knife at a good price.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohdwa24.html



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:42 pm 
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I've never held or used one of the Yusuke's, so take this with that knowledge.

Most likely, we're talking about a difference in fit & finish (it'll look nicer, all sharp edges rounded, etc.), likely a better grind (it'll cut slightly better), and the added value of a saya all in favor of the Suisin. I also really like the handle on the Suisin Inox Honyaki's....it's not a true octagon....the bottom is rounded and extremely comfortable.

Now, that said, I do feel like the Suisin name commands a premium. The Konosuke's will be on par with the Suisin in the grind and F&F departments and you're not paying for a name. Granted, the Suisin name is worth the price in my opinion....they make an awesome knife.

Your question about carbon vs. stainless at same hardness isn't really an answerable question as it's just too general in nature. However, the general consensus used to be that carbon's got sharper and were easier to sharpen than stainless counterparts. Although it's an argument we could still justly have, I don't think it holds as much water as it once did. There are some really great stainless steels out there now that are every bit as good as a carbon counterpart.....AEB-L, CPM154, 19C27, S35VN (or so I hear), etc. are all really great steels.



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:10 am 
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I still find stainless blades more time consuming to sharpen. I love carbon, because of the responsive/easy to maintain edge. It's a joy to sharpen...and then your quickly onto cooking/prep. The majority of the time, all i have to do is strop it a few times..and the edge is nicely back! (#2 Aogami)

Traditionally, honyaki blades are one type of steel throughout (vs kasumi knives which are layered)...they are harder to forge and harden; they require specialized skills. Because of the complexities required to successfully forge a honyaki knife...they're alot more expensive. Makes sense...

Mark has various saya's to fit a variety of knives, so it shouldn't be difficult for him to help you pair up a saya if your knife doesn't already come with one. Without knowing what your budget is, it's more difficult to get an idea of potentials, regardless...i like knives that are a bit taller (at least 50mm at the heel):

#1 Takeda: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagyas24.html
#2 HD, but a bit different one: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/koadhd24wa.html
#3 Yamashin: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh1gy24.html (no octogon handle, but white#1 and reasonably priced)



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:06 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:25 pm
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Alrighty then...lemme know if I've got this anywhere close to right. There are as many opinions as there are knives. Some carry more weight than others - both opinions AND knives. It would take me a long time and several knives to decide which one is the best for me should I choose to run the choice to ground. If I buy one gyuto and stop there, I'm pretty sure it will be the best for me since I won't know any better.

I can see that this could easily become a 'sickness' for those not in the knife business and perhaps them too. I'm trying to build up an immunity. Thought that Tojiro nakiri would do it but alas, it did not. All that did was teach me that my habits will not support a carbon knife. Was a cheap lesson and served the purpose.

Mark - you can delete that post I made about the ham slicer if you like. I've sliced a really lot of ham and believe what I wrote but it's not really appropriate on a forum related to finer knives.


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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 pm 
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watercrawl wrote:"...The Konosuke's will be on par with the Suisin in the grind and F&F departments..."


I gotta say Adam, I disagree slightly. I agree in that the Suisin is worth the premium & I, to my surprise, love the bulk of the handles, but I disagree in the F&F dept. Grind... yes, on par, but I find the choils & spines on the Suisins are dramatically more rounded & polished & the sayas have just as dramatic a difference in tolerances w/the Suisins fitting much more tightly & being considerably more thin overall.



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Yeah, the saya thing I'll agree for sure....hadn't taken that into account....was just thinking about blades.

The Konosuke's I've had did have very well finished choils and spines though. Most of what I've had from them has been the Fujiyama stuff, but I have seen others (HD for instance). Maybe there is less of a consistency with the Kono's.



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 Post subject: Re: Suisin
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:39 pm 
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ADAM <> I agree w/inconsistency. I have 5 Konos & have traded one more away; you can see differences from knife to knife. My 270's choils are so sharp they have cut me when my skin is soaked. I have yet to acquire a Kono from the Fujiyama shop. :| A blue 240 will be in the kit at some point... assuming I can refuse that damn ebony handle for a plain Jane Ho. ;)



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