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 Post subject: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:09 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm
Posts: 16
This is my second post – my first post was a reply to an older post and I received no responses to my questions, so I am starting a new topic, hoping it will get some replies.

I bought some stones from Congress Tools (the 120, 150, 240, 320, 400 and 600 grit Moldmaster stones), bought a 1" x 1/8" x 8' piece of aluminum from a metal recycler for $3.00. I used 5 minute epoxy from Harbor Freight and have no problems with the stones coming loose or detaching.

I really like all the stones except the 600. I actually hate it. I used it on one paring knife and it showed about 1/2 mm wear in the center of the stone; one knife - a 3" paring knife for crap sakes! It also leaves the edge dull looking, not shiny or mirror finish. Hate it.

If anyone has experience with the Moldmaster stones, what is your impression of them?

Do you soak them in water or just spray some on them? They seem pretty thirsty.

Thanks for any info you might have about using these stones. I am new to knife sharpening using the Edge Pro. I got mine used from craigslist, but there were no stones included. This is my second post by the way. Lots of good info on this forum.

Jackson


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 10:53 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Seattle, WA USA
I made a set from the Moldmaster and superfine lines. 120, 320, 400, 600 moldmasters and 1200 superfine. I have not used them in some time. I liked the 1200 the best. I don't recall having a problem with the 600 dishing. I just looked at it and it looks fine. I would soak mine when I was using them. 10 minutes or so before starting I would drop the set in water, often the last stone used would have been soaking for 30 miutes by the time I got to it.

ETA: For me a big part of the learning curve on the EP was to get myself to not put so much pressure on the knife edge with the stone arm. At first I would really catch myself reefing down on the knife edge. It seemed intuitive to me to do so but I got so much better results when I wised up and trained myself to use light strokes and allow the stones to do the work.

Hope that is helpful. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm
Posts: 16
Paradox,

Thanks for the info. I don't think that I am applying too much pressure on the stone arm, especially when using the higher grit stones, but I'll definitely keep that in mind next time I hit the EP.


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:07 pm 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am
Posts: 183
Location: Florida, USA, Earth
I did the same thing regarding making my own EP stones with the moldmasters. I only have the 320, 400 and 600 stones. These stones IMO are GREAT stones as far as less expensive stones go. I don't like the 600 grit stone much myself. I contacted Congress Tools about their stones and all of their stones are meant to be used with oil as the lubricant. At least the stones I asked about anyway. I have used the MM dry and with water. They seem to clog quickly when using them dry. Water will make the 600 grit stone surface soft, almost like mud. They cut very fast IMO and the 400 grit is as fine as I like. They leave a very consistant scratch pattern and VERY sharp edge. If you want a mirror finish it's easy to get one with a strop because of the very fine, consistant scratch pattern. They don't leave random deeper scratches like some stones I've used. The only thing I like the 600 grit for is to use pull strokes. After I use the 400 grit I like to raise the EP angle about 2 or 3 degrees and use pull (stropping) strokes on the edge. When pushingthe edge into the 600 grit, the stone wears very fast. Try just using pull strokes with the 600 grit and see how you like it.

If you want an economy stone set that performs well the Moldmasters are a great choice IMO. For about $30 you can have a complete set for the EP after you mount them. The 320 stone cuts pretty good for reprofiling an edge if you have extra time. I would want a couple of the coarser stones though if these were the only stones I used.

I have also used the FLEX stones from Congress Tools. These stones leave a very nice finish and much closer to a mirror finish. Not quite though, you still need to strop to get a really pretty edge. I get a beautiful mirror finish with my Shapton Glass 8k stone but the one stone costs twice as much as a complete set of moldmasters. :) I don't think you need every grit to have a working grit progression.

This is just my experience. Hope it helps.

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 35
I prefer the boride stones over the congress stones,try out the boride cs-hd as an alternative to the mm 600.It doesnt dish bad at all and cuts very fast.Google mold shop tools and check their site,you can get the stones individually.If anyone has any other sources for individual boride stones please post a link.I had the polishers choice stones in 90 and 1200 via a sample from boride,the 1200 leaves a far better mirror than the 10k chocera,but you can only get those by a box of 12,if anybody would be interested in a group buy give me a shout.

Also stay away from anything under 400 grit in the cs-hd boride stones,the binder in them makes them slide over the steel instead of abrading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm
Posts: 16
jackknifeh - Thanks for your input.

I'll try pull strokes on the MM 600; that might be a good answer for how to use that particular stone. Thanks for that idea.

I placed a second order with Congress Tools for a MM 80 and a Flex 600, although I think it got lost in the mail since I placed the order on 1/9/13 and still haven't received it. I ordered the MM 80 because I really like the MM stones and for $3.70, I figured why not give it a try. I guess that was my thinking when I ordered the full progression of MM stones in the first place. The stones are so inexpensive that I figured I would have lots of stones to try out and can vary the progression as I see fit.

I have other, more pressing issues at the moment -- frozen water pipes for one -- so it will be a few days before I can justify getting out the EP.

JacksonH


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm
Posts: 16
Lucian - thanks for your reply.

I checked out MoldShopTools.com and the only CS-HD 600 grit stones that I find are in sizes 1/8" x 1/4", 1/8" x 1/2", 1/4" x 1/4", and 1/4" x 1/2". I was hoping for 1/4" x 1".

The PC stones sound very interesting. Too bad you have to buy at least 12. I'd be interested in a 1200, and maybe a 900 in 1/4" x 1" if you are thinking of placing an order.

Thanks for your input.

JacksonH


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 35
HerbGardenMarkers wrote:Lucian - thanks for your reply.

I checked out MoldShopTools.com and the only CS-HD 600 grit stones that I find are in sizes 1/8" x 1/4", 1/8" x 1/2", 1/4" x 1/4", and 1/4" x 1/2". I was hoping for 1/4" x 1".

The PC stones sound very interesting. Too bad you have to buy at least 12. I'd be interested in a 1200, and maybe a 900 in 1/4" x 1" if you are thinking of placing an order.

Thanks for your input.

JacksonH

I would call them just to be sure they dont have the stone in that dimension because I have bought it in 1\4x1x6.Its $150 for a box of 12 of the 1200 pc stones,pm me if your interested,as well as anybody else.Also give the 600 orange edm a try,its cuts really fast and doesnt dish bad at all,if I had to with an ao based stone instead of sic it would be the orange edm,Ive used it in 320,600 and the 180.The 180 cuts every bit as fast as a chosera 400 if not faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm
Posts: 16
JacksonH

I would call them just to be sure they dont have the stone in that dimension because I have bought it in 1\4x1x6.Its $150 for a box of 12 of the 1200 pc stones,pm me if your interested,as well as anybody else.Also give the 600 orange edm a try,its cuts really fast and doesnt dish bad at all,if I had to with an ao based stone instead of sic it would be the orange edm,Ive used it in 320,600 and the 180.The 180 cuts every bit as fast as a chosera 400 if not faster.


Lucian,

I called MoldShopTools and was told that they DO have the CS-HD 1/4x1x6 in 150 -1200 grits, as well as the PC 1200! She also said that they can order others if they don't have them in stock.

I'm thinking that I will oder the PC 1200, based on your recommendations, but I need some advice about my progression.

I have Moldmaster 80 - 600, Flex 600 (also from Congress Tools), and Edge Pro 400, 600, and 1000. I would like a nice progression up to the PC 1200 and there seems to be a pretty big gap between the EP 1000 and the PC 1200. Did I understand you correctly that you feel that the PC 1200 is comparable in grit to the Chosara 10K? Do you prefer the PC stones to the CS-HD stones? Where do the Orange EDM stones fit in?

So many stones, so little money.

JacksonH


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 Post subject: Re: Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:39 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 35
HerbGardenMarkers wrote:
JacksonH

I would call them just to be sure they dont have the stone in that dimension because I have bought it in 1\4x1x6.Its $150 for a box of 12 of the 1200 pc stones,pm me if your interested,as well as anybody else.Also give the 600 orange edm a try,its cuts really fast and doesnt dish bad at all,if I had to with an ao based stone instead of sic it would be the orange edm,Ive used it in 320,600 and the 180.The 180 cuts every bit as fast as a chosera 400 if not faster.


Lucian,

I called MoldShopTools and was told that they DO have the CS-HD 1/4x1x6 in 150 -1200 grits, as well as the PC 1200! She also said that they can order others if they don't have them in stock.

I'm thinking that I will oder the PC 1200, based on your recommendations, but I need some advice about my progression.

I have Moldmaster 80 - 600, Flex 600 (also from Congress Tools), and Edge Pro 400, 600, and 1000. I would like a nice progression up to the PC 1200 and there seems to be a pretty big gap between the EP 1000 and the PC 1200. Did I understand you correctly that you feel that the PC 1200 is comparable in grit to the Chosara 10K? Do you prefer the PC stones to the CS-HD stones? Where do the Orange EDM stones fit in?

So many stones, so little money.

JacksonH

I was speaking of the finish of the 1200 pc vs the 10k chosera,I cant really tell a difference in the cutting performance between the 2.Really doesnt make sense considering the 1200 is 3 micron and the 10k being 1 micron.I called boride and they were very vague in their explanation of the way the pc stones are formulated.My uneducated guess is that the polishing additives in it make it finish at a much higher finish and seemingly higher grit level.

I havent done any microscope shots with comparisons but look forward to it.As far as the cs-hd vs pc stones go my preference up until fine finishing stones is silicone carbide for its ability to sharpen even the hardest steel.A friend of mine used the cs-hd stones on a farid mule with a rc hardness of 68-70 with no problem.Diamond,CBN,BC all work better but its tough to beat the value of the silicone carbide in a stone price wise.

The orange edm come in as a second choice to silicone carbide as far as cutting speed,I really havent noticed much difference in the 2 unless its really hard steel.Just an alternative.Anything above 60 rc you will notice a difference.

Depending on your end goal your progression will vary,if you want perfect scratch pattern you will have to go through a number of stones,if you want a good usable edge you can do some skipping through the grits.Also the current condition of the knife will dictate where you start,there is no point in starting with a 120 if a 320 will create a burr in a reasonable amount of time.

I am not sure what the micron rating is on the congress stones are so be careful about switching to between the congress and ep stones,which are all made by boride.For a dull but not ridiculous dull blade I will start with a 320 or 400,then 600 to a 1000,then 1200 of whatever your using to 1200 pc after that.If I am going for perfection I go from 120,220,320,400,600,800,1000,1200,6k,8k,10k,and finish with 13k.

Thats great news on the stones from mold shop tools being available,are you sure they are all available in the 1\4x1x6 for sale by individual stones?


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