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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:16 pm 
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I can honestly say that I think you're the only person I've ever hear say that. Matter of fact, I've never heard anyone ever say that VG10 outperformed any of Hitachi's white or blue steels in any category except corrosion resistance. :)



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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:29 pm 
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I am kinda surprised that you have found Vg-10 to outperform those steels as well. I have a Blue #2 gyuto I have used since August and has only seen the strop 4 times since then. Many of my White, Blue, SK steels I would go a few months with only a handful of touchups maybe in that time period. VG-10 feels OK off of the stones, but after not too much cutting, really feels lackluster in terms of the edge it has IMHO. AEB-L will blow Vg-10 out of the water in terms of edge holding and holding a good edge. The Artifex in AEB-L I feel are much better than the Tojiro's in that regards and de burr much easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:58 pm
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i never said vg 10 will outperform carbon steel, i did say basically that the edge retention of on tojiros dp line is superior to the carbons ive used and owned. Carbon steel in general sharpens up much easier than stainless and also touches up alot easier. so its important to figure out which means more to the user. again, if youre a novice sharpener and you would prefer ease of sharpening then yes vg 10 isnt for you but depending on the cook vg 10 works for many people just fine. ive never used an artifex so i cannot comment on them but tojiros dp line have been around for quite some time and certainly have built quite a reputation for themselves as being a great "bang for the buck" knife, especially for people looking for their first j knife purchase. the quality of the steel in the tojiro line versus myiabi or shun vg 10 lines is atleast on par if not superior, and both shun and myiabis sell for much more. taz 575, ive used both blue steel and augami super in a professional setting (45-55 hour and from my experience i can ce


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 93
i never said vg 10 will outperform carbon steel, i did say basically that the edge retention of on tojiros dp line is superior to the carbons ive used and owned. Carbon steel in general sharpens up much easier than stainless and also touches up alot easier. so its important to figure out which means more to the user. again, if youre a novice sharpener and you would prefer ease of sharpening then yes vg 10 isnt for you but depending on the cook vg 10 works for many people just fine. ive never used an artifex so i cannot comment on them but tojiros dp line have been around for quite some time and certainly have built quite a reputation for themselves as being a great "bang for the buck" knife, especially for people looking for their first j knife purchase. the quality of the steel in the tojiro line versus myiabi or shun vg 10 lines is atleast on par if not superior, and both shun and myiabis sell for much more. taz 575, ive used both blue steel and augami super in a professional setting (45-55 hour and from my experience i can ce


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 93
whoops! but i can certainly say working the full time i needed to sharpen both blue steel and augami super about twice a month. im amazed you can get by that long with just stropping.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:06 pm 
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You say that the edge retention of the VG-10 knives you have used blows carbon out of the water and is much better than the average carbon steel you used and/or owned. To me, holding the edge is performance that can be attributed to the steel and therefore the vg-10 outperformed the carbons. In my use of Vg-10 steels, the sharp edge really doesn't last at all and the edge degrades rapidly from there. My carbons I have used at home hold a sharper edge for a much longer time. I generally try to avoid using my carbons on acidic foods, which can deteriorate the edge of carbon steel rapidly if not wiped own quickly.

I'm just surprised that you find the edge in VG-10 to last longer than the edges on carbon knives in your environment. At home, the VG-10 blades I have used have lost their sharp edge very quickly and felt pretty blah from there on out, even after deburring and making sure I have the burr fully removed. I've found that VG-10 loses it edge the quickest, followed by carbons and then followed by other stainless steels, like AEB-L, CPM154, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 93
at work i definitely use carbon alot. i touch it up alot too because its necessary. while im happy that youve found what works for you in your home kitchen i must say that if we are going to discuss performance or one knife outperforming another, more characteristics of the knife should be included besides which one has the best edge retention. ultimately, in a work environment one doesnt always have convienent choice as to which knife to use to cut which ingredient, but carbon steel edges degrades whether or not you choose to use it for acidic foods. again, ive gotten pretty good results sharpening tojiros and i think someertimes the negatives of vg 10 are often overstated. at $79 for a 210 and $99 for a 240mm theyre a good deal. if nothing else, theyre great for people to try to help them figure out what attributes they may be looking for in a gyuto that are most important to them and IMO pretty low maintence compared to carbon.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:44 pm 
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I agree that the Tojiro's are nice for people starting out, but at $70 for a 210mm, the Artifex in AEB-L is a better choice IMHO. The Fujiwara Stainless series I have also been very happy with as well and both are light weight, have great grinds and better handle F&F than the Tojiro's I have seen and sharpen up easier than the Tojiros. The AEB-L will blow away the Vg-10 in terms of edge holding and sharpening ease, as well as the edge that it can take.

I've played wth Vg-10 in pocket knives and kitchen knives and it never really wowed me at all. AEB-L is another story :)

The person who is looking for the entry level knives and is new to sharpening I feel would be better off with the Fujiwara Stainless or Artifex series.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 93
for what its worth, it sounds like the person this post is trying to help is newish? to sharpening, as he mentioned buying a stone along with whatever gyuto he decides to get. if that is indeed the case i would probably suggest the fujiwara over the tojiro because it is easier to learn how to sharpen on a fujiwara stainless.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujiwara or Tojiro?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:30 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
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Location: Philippines
i'm on the boat with labor of love on this one.


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