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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:08 pm
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I'm looking for a wa handle, carbon steel, 210mm or 240mm. I really like the look and feel of the Takeda. I'm also looking at the Kono Fuji Blue #2 Gyuto 240 Ebony. What other gyuto should I consider? The Richmond ZDP looks fantastic but a bit over my budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:11 pm 
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The Kono is supposed to be awesome, on my short list of stuff to get! Another Wa Carbon gyuto I love is the Tanaka Sekiso 240mm Damascus Blue #2. Great convex grind, stupidly thin behind the edge, cuts amazingly and holds a edge for a long time. I've been using mine at home since August and have only stopped it 4 times; it's never even seen the stones yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:22 pm 
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The Goko gyuto's are nice:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/gokogyuto240mm.html

The Konosuke's are kind of my goto upper tier knives lately...I've been really impressed with their wares. If that knife is a choice, I couldn't hardly recommend against it in that price range.

The Goko's are nice, but not that nice and not that expensive....but are really nice still.

Another to consider if your budget goes that high is the Masamoto KS wa's:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/makswa24.html

A very tried and true awesome knife. Is a long standing barometer for a great wa-gyuto.



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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:08 pm
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Both of those knives look great. Is the Masamoto clad in ss or will it patina with time?


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:54 pm 
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It will patina, it's a solid piece of steel...no cladding at all.



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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:08 pm
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Yamshin, Goko, and Masamoto I believe are all white #1 steel. If you take each knife and hand sharpen each by stone will they basically all perform similarly? Is the main difference fit and finish? Or is there a big difference in blade shape and how it feel when used in the kitchen? And just to confirm, is the Masamoto KS white #1 steel?


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:58 pm 
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It depends on the heat treating and how the blade is ground, also known as the geometry. You can have White #1 steel from 5 different makers and they may perform slightly differently. Assuming they are all heat treated correctly and to the same specs, they should perform similarly sharpening/edge retention wise. The Masamoto says it's White Steel, but doesn't say if it's White #1 or White #2.

In terms of cutting performance, they will differ. The Yamashin is a Kurouchi knife, so it will have carbon cladding that has been blackened on the sides of the White #1 core. The Goko uses stainless cladding w/o any black finish on the sides of the knife, but with what looks like a somewhat rough finish. The Masamoto looks like a solid piece of White steel, ground and polished. My guess is the Masamoto would have the best performance in the kitchen. The other two knives have rougher finishes, which may help in food release/not sticking, but may cause more friction during the cutting process. I have a knife in similar construction to the Goko (White #1 clad in SS) with a similar finish and it doesn't seem to affect the smoothness of the cut on some things, other things I notice more friction compared to a more polished blade. Knives I have with a Kurouchi finish seem to have more friction while cutting taller things, like cabbage, big onions, potatoes, etc. With a knife that is ground and polished, it seems to have less friction during the cutting process from the finish, but food may stick to the blade more. It's all a trade off. The shape of the blade and the cross section of the blade and it's grind will play a bigger role in how the knife performs than the finish on the outside of the blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:14 pm 
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The Masamoto is White #2 I'm pretty sure.

You should expect all of the knives to perform similarly steel wise. Both white steels perform very similarly taking a very nice edge and has very nice edge retention. Barring a crappy heat treat, the steel in each will be very similar.

Now, that doesn't mean they will all cut similarly. As Taz points out, the knife's construction will have a lot to do with this.

The Masamoto has the best geometry of the three and will cut the best.



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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:22 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:08 pm
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Adam & Taz I really appreciate you guys walking me through this knife decision. The Masamoto puts me in a price range with a few other knives that get great reviews. If you were to compare the Masamoto to the Takeda AS or the Kanehiro or Konosuke Fujiyama white #1 or #2 or any other in this price range, how would they all stack up? What would be the gyuto of choice at that price point $300-$400?


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 Post subject: Re: Santoku or Gyuto?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:51 am 
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Takeda to any of the others is not the same. The Takeda has a completely different profile, and is kurouchi.

The Takeda is a fantastic knife and one of my favorites, but picking between it and any of the others should be based on wanting that profile and that finish.

Between the others, we'd be splitting some pretty fine frogs hairs. :)

The Masamoto and Konosukes are both extremely nice. The Kanehiro is also nice, but I would favor the other two a little bit.

I'd probably go for a Fujiyama over a Masamoto, but not by a lot. I really love their knives.

 



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