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 Post subject: Filling out a set of stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:19 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:00 am
Posts: 60
I am a shaky sharpener, but I have an Artifex 240 mm gyuto in AEB-L and a Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri in transit from CKTG to me here in the Dominican Republic, and I figured my aging and worn Gatco guided sharpener kit wouldn't be appropriate for use on such fine knives, and my King 1K waterstone with attached base from Lee Valley that I use with a DMT ABG Aligner Blade Guide/Knife Clamp isn't going to be sufficient to care for the new knives properly. Because I have had next to no success working the King waterstone freehand, but tolerable results when I use the DMT guide clamped to the spine of my forty year old Henckel 8 inch chef knife, I figured I'd be better off going with an Edgepro rather than three or four stones and a stone holder. I really do seem to be completely unable to get the knack of passing a blade over a stone freehand without wobbling all over the place, and the DMT guide has its limitations.

Now that CKTG has the Edgepro Essential Set back in stock, this time with Shapton glass stones in 500, 1K, and 6K, I decided to splurge. In addition to the Edgepro, I will be ordering a few other accessories, such as the deburring felt block, the Idahone 12" ceramic honing rod, and the DMT 2"x6" double sided plate in Extra Coarse and Coarse.

Sorry for the lengthy intro, but I figured the more you guys know about my situation, the better advice you can give.

I've been reading a lot in this forum over the last two weeks, and from what I have gathered, the jump from 1K to 6K is kind of a large one. Many folks say it's a good idea to progress in doubles: i.e. 1K, 2K, 4K, 8K. I can see the sense in that, but I would prefer for financial reasons to go with just one step between the Shapton glass 1K and the 6K. I figured a logical choice would be the Chosera 3K - , and reading the reviews for the full size Chosera 3K bench stone seem to confirm it is an excellent stone - .

But the Naniwa 2K Aotoshi "Green Brick" - - also has a number of devotees, including Ken Schwartz, and CKTG does have an edgepro version of this stone available.

Another alternative would be to stick with the Shapton glass line, and get either the 2K or 4K. If I went this route, which would be better of the two - 2K or 4K?

Or is there something else out there even better? Maybe the Blue Aoto? - Or even the Natural Aoto? - - Might be nice to have a real J-nat in the lineup.

I have to say that at this point, I am sort of leaning towards the Green Brick, just because I was hoping I might be able to defray some of the expense of all this stuff by sharpening up some knives for neighbors, and Ken Schwartz says it's ideal for European (read German?) knives. The only knives folks around here would pay someone to sharpen would be their Ikeas, Messermeisters, Henckels, and Wusthofs, with maybe the occasional Global. I don't know anyone around here likely to have even a Shun. Pretty much everything else I see are Tramontinas in cheap stainless. Also, one reviewer writes that as the stone dries out, the finish it gives is more like a 3K or 4K, so I thought it might be better at bridging the gap between 1K and 6K. On the other hand, the Chosera IS an actual 3K, wet or dry, so...

Decisions, decisions! Help a brother out?

 Post subject: Re: Filling out a set of stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 1702
I think your mixing stones too much and paying WAY too much attention to the "grit" which is not the same between brands or abrasive types.

In 10 minutes I could have you holding consistent angles freehand, its really not that hard. I'll have a video up later tonight that will explain it.

So, my recommendation would be stick with freehand. I had king stones and hated them for the same reasons, better stones make a big difference.

I would say stick with the glass stones and get a 4k instead of a 6k and maybe think of another coarser stone such as the 120 or 220 to go with the 500. Starting the edge out correctly is very important and on the finer side 4k is plenty refined enough to make a edge very Sharp.

P.S. softer cheaper knives stop at 1k, not really worth it to go any finer.

 Post subject: Re: Filling out a set of stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:00 am
Posts: 60
Thanks for the advice, Jason. If I understand correctly, you would advise against any guided system and go freehand instead, but IF I do go Edgepro, I'm better off sticking with the Shapton glass for the whole grit range rather than mixing? In that case, it would seem the range in the more expensive is just about perfect. The thing is, it's also over a hundred dollars more.

I understand your recommendation to get something coarser than 500 grit: that's why I intended to get the double-sided DMT 2"x6" plate - it can be used (with a bit of care) on the Edgepro. I figured I could use that for chip repair and setting initial bevel on very dull knives, then move to the Shaptons for finishing.

I'm VERY interested in watching your video on holding consistent angles freehand. Can you please return to this thread and post the URL to it? I gotta tell you, I've watched an awful lot of videos on how to do it, but I've never been able to do what those guys say anyone can do. My fine motor co-ordination is not the best, I guess. But I can certainly whip out the old Henckel and the King 1K and give it another go.

 Post subject: Re: Filling out a set of stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 4:53 pm
Posts: 333
Location: Seattle, WA USA
I'm betting that something(s) is listed incorrectly on the description of the essential set. I have an Edge Pro with a complete set of the Shapton Glass stones (minus the 30k) and none of them are 8mm thick. More like 6mm I'd say. My guess would be those are Shapton Pro stones, but there isn't a 6k pro stone? Then again the description text says Beston, Bester, and Rika like the picture shows. I'm so confused now! :?

Be sure you are getting what you think you are before you place the order.

With the glass stones on the edge pro, 500, 2k, and 6k work well as a 3 stone progression. Also 500, 1k, and 4k would work too.

No reason you can't start with the less expensive set and then add some stones later? For the price the $319 set is very complete though. You pretty much have everything you'd ever "need" to make any knife sharp that way. You WILL be able to make knives sharp with the Edge Pro for sure.

 Post subject: Re: Filling out a set of stones
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 10864
Location: Madison Wisconsin
I'm still messing with that essential set. I need to re-shoot the picture and the measurements are a little off as you said. I'll work on it tomorrow if I have time. So many people are calling us right now it's hard to get anything done.

Mark Richmond
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