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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Posts: 220
hey Pete.

which version of the 1k UME are you getting? it would be great to hear some feedback on it!

pat



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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Location: San Ramon Ca.
studio398 wrote:hey Pete.

which version of the 1k UME are you getting? it would be great to hear some feedback on it!

pat



Most likely both. I'll do some testing and dedicate one or the other to straight razors.



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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Hi Pat,

I used my Chocera 1k(Hulk) over the weekend. WOW! IT WAS LOVE AT FIRST STROKE! I hope I can say that on here. :oops:
Silky smooth, cut like a champ with just a little mud, great feedback, just a great feel! It was slightly more thirsty in the beginning than I expected but is definitely spash-n-go. The 3k was just as sweet, I do love my Choceras.



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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:30 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
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Im enjoying mine as well, looking for a nice next step now. I've got a natural aoto but I'm wondering if that would work better with another stone in front of it.
I have a superstone 5k that I havent touched in ages


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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Or precede most aoto with a 1 to 2k stone. Most aoto are relatively soft so a 1200 Nubatama is a nice fit if you want a stone of similar hardness. For double bevels you can precede with harder stones. Going
From a 1k is a bit more work on the aoto but from a 2k you will get a better kasumi finish if that is of concern.

In a natural an amakusa is a large but doable jump if you work the amakusa enough or dope the slurry with 8 or 16 micron cbn.

Between a Shapton and Chocera I would go with the Chocera to precede an aoto. The chocera leaves a less defined / harsh scratch pattern that is easier to remove. An ideal stone to precede the aoto is the 2k bamboo if aesthetics is of concern.

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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:41 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
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I tried finishing after the 1k on a harder natural of mine and it worked nicely I haven't tried using the chosera natural and ss 5k together. I still can't decide how I feel about the SS 5k after five years to be honest :)

your info about the aoto explains why I haven't been liking the edge it leaves since replacing my bester 1200. It sounds like I'll have to slowly build two different stone lineups for the single and double bevels. How does the green brick work following the chosera? is there a low grit range where I can use a common stone that works well leading into both single and double bevel lineups?


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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:21 am 
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Well the 5k SS would not be my choice following a natural stone in general. It leaves a bright shiny scratch pattern, which sort of goes in the opposite direction of increasing contrast provided with a natural stone. In general you don't tend to go back to synthetics once you start working on a natural stone finish with some exceptions like the Nubatama Bamboo 2k 3k and 15k and to a lesser but still noticeable extent the 1200 and 5k bamboo stones, which retain the kasumi finish.

Now if you are not going for a contrasting finish but just a bright finish on a double bevel knife the green brick following a 1k Chocera is nice, but a small step. The green brick is essentially the near twin brother of the 2k SS.

So to find common ground between the single and double bevel stone lineups is also like the common ground between straight razors and knives in general with single bevels being the softest, then double bevels and then straight razors. There is also an issue of personal taste and sharpening style here too.

With natural stones, you can 'adjust' characteristics to your tastes. So lets take the Meara for example. Want a softer slurry with a thicker mud? Use an aoto tomonagura on it. Now you can use the stone for single bevels. The follow it with a Hakka Tomae tomonagura. Want a harder surface to work on. Use the Meara with a Meara tomo. A bit finer? Use a Yaginoshima Asagi tomo or Hakka tomo.

I find the Yaginoshima Asagi one of those just right stones - not so hard you can't use it on knives or so soft you can't use it on razors. And with a bit of mud, it can be coaxed to do single bevels with care.

In a low grit range, I like the natural Ohmura stone for this. It is a bit soft so it can be used on double bevels with care and is a natural :) for a single bevel.

If by low grit you are talking about 1k synthetics, the 1200 Bamboo is nice for single bevels. With care it also works with double bevels but it is quite soft and muddy. Here too you can use the mud from the 1200 applied to a harder surface like a piece of balsa strop to get a harder surface (a dry 1200 bamboo strop).

There are lot of other possibilities here - one of the reasons Nubatamas are a diverse group of stones :) In general Shaptons are quite hard stones so they are best suited for precise applications - razors, woodworking tools, double bevel edges and jigs, while applications that need a bit more slack - single bevels, hamaguri grinds, convex edges and zero grind edges will go easier with a softer stone like the Choceras or even the superstones.

I think I'm starting to ramble ....

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Ken

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Ken



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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:20 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am
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low grit talking pre 1000.

I kind of thought that about the 5k. I know very little about this other natural Itd be interesting to have somebody take a look at it that knows a touch more than myself. Its very hard, has either a cleaning stone or nagura with it (looks like it came from the same piece of rock) that creates very minor mud when used on the stone. The stone itself generates no mud on either double or single bevel knives and most of it brushes off with the water as its used. wears very slowly, seems to scratch up a surface polished on SS 5k. Also seems to negate the contrast created by the aono aoto (I can't recall the difference between aoto and aono aoto right now). its not from japan, got it from a smith in israel years ago. I want to guess its 3 or 4k. I'm currently trying very minor very light stropping on this stone right now. I found it needed a touch up after a few hours today, I should make a strop for work I am keeping the largest piece of my broken bester in a quart deli full of water for minor touchups currently but taking it from 1000 to finisher then later stropping at 1200 doesnt seem like the most ideal solution.

I'm primarily concerned with double bevel knives, I don't use my singe bevels enough currently. What I'm understanding though is that the whole process needs to follow a singular vision from start to finish meaning from the 100ish grit all the way up? right now my low grit stone is just a king 320 grit after a atoma 140 which ive only used for lapping and some thinning so far. then after that its up to 1000 grit chosera. but I find that I only really use the 320 on a new knife or to refine the scratch pattern after thinning. Used to use it for repair before I got the atoma.


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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:57 pm 
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"If by low grit you are talking about 1k synthetics, the 1200 Bamboo is nice for single bevels. With care it also works with double bevels but it is quite soft and muddy."

Ken,
is the 1200 part of the bamboo 150/1200 combo stone the same 1200 bamboo you are referring to above?

thanks,

pat



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 Post subject: Re: ordered a chosera 1000
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Pat, they are two completely different stones. The 1200 in the combo stone is more like the 1500 Ume stone and more general purpose.

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