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 Post subject: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hi Mark,

My name is Chris Cibas and I am a culinary arts student in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Now that I am starting to get more comfortable with knives and my Wusthof Cordon Bleu 9" Chef Knife, I am becoming interested in acquiring a japanese knife.

I did a lot of research and am leaning towards a Konosuke HD. Thinking about the 270mm Gyuto. Thoughts? I guess my only fear is it being a bit too long...but I think I can handle that length and get used to it.

Anyways, I was wondering about getting a quote for one and had some questions...

1) I noticed they are out of stock...do you know when you will have some back in stock? Can you just order one?

2) Is it possible to get the length to be closer to 250-260mm?

3) I am thinking about the Ebony octagonal handle, but was wondering if it can be made with an Ebony handle with white buffalo ferrule and end cap so it goes light/dark/light?

4) Is there any chance the knife could be taylored to include a Damascus pattern on both sides or even 1 side?

5) What would shipping cost to Canada (M9P3E2) - Toronto area?


What are your thoughts on the Silver 3 line?...specifically this knife - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowasi27ho.html ?


Anyways, I am looking forward to hearing with you and getting my questions sorted out and possibly ordering one. Please let me know what the costs would be if any of the above are possible.

Thanks,
Chris



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:59 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
I always think 270s are too long for most people but I know some guys like them when they're doing lots of prep work. We are out of the 270 currently but I do have the 240 in stock here and I recommend this knife all the time. I feel like a broken record but it's a great knife:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohd240gynew.html

The 270s won't be here until after xmas I think. We do have the 270 in White #2 available right now and it's really good too:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2wa27.html

Yes the 270s run short so they're more like 260 on the edge.

I don't think they do them like that.

HD damascus won't happen. At least as far as I know it won't.

Price to Canada is computed by weight so just put the item in the check out cart and hit the apply button to get the rate.

I love the Silver 3 stuff, especially with the hybrid ebony handles.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kogi27.html

I'm taking one of these for my personal xmas present to myself for working 30 days straight banging out knife orders in the 240 size. I can steal anything I want and this is my next theft.



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:09 am
Posts: 102
Hi Mark,

Thanks for posting my questions.

I was talking to someone here at a local knife store about requesting a Damascus pattern on the knife and she said it may be possible...so is there any way you can find out?

A couple things I am really wondering about are:

1) What exactly are the differences between the NEW SHAPE Konosuke HD and the regular version. Could you be as detailed as possible as I am hesitant to buy a knife I have never really seen. Do you have pics of them side by side?

2) Can you compare the Silver 3 and the HD for me? What are the differences in weight, shape, thickness and material?

3) Lastly - I was told they are not making HDs anymore, just HD2s....is this true? If so, what is the change?


I know most of these questions are probably in the forum and I will be doing lots of reading here at the forum over the next while...but it would be nice to have all the answers or links to them posted here in this thread.

Thanks!

corp



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:15 am 
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A damascus pattern in the steel means that it is damascus steel, usually with a different core steel. If they (Konosuke) don't make that knife with Damascus steel, you can't just add in the layers afterwards. Some places have tried to take non damascus steel and mask and acid etch it to look like damascus, but it looks horrible. If you want Damascus steel, it needs to be made out of Damascus steel in the first place. I haven't seen a Damascus steel Kono. Maybe check out the Sakay Takayuki Damascus with damascus side panels and AEB-L core steel or the Kikuichi Damascus ones.


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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:09 am 
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CORP <>

#1: http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1521

#2: Ginsan steel is stainless; HD steel is semi-stainless.
Statistics: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowasi24ho.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohdwa24.html

#3: The HD(2) moniker represents the second generation of HD steel. It is still a low stain carbon High Speed Tool Steel, but the elemental proportions are slightly different in hopes to extend edge retention. It is the "same" steel w/ better edge retention.

Regarding your end cap: I'm sure Isaiah can glue one on for you... http://www.chefknivestogo.com/issccu.html



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:56 am 
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So are the new shape Konosukes HD or HD2?

They just list as HD... so I am not sure.

Thanks!



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:49 pm 
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CORP <> HD2 steel is HD steel. It is a second generation evolution slightly modified for better edge retention. We're talking most probably about the addition of slightly more tungsten and/or vanadium. Their proprietary blend is just that... theirs. There is no need to designate the new HD's as HD2 because it is the same thing. A stretch for sure, but that would be analogous to calling a F-150, a F-150(2) because the factory changed the air filter from 10 'particle paper' to 10.25 'particle paper'. Admittedly, I do understand the confusion caused by Mark listing only one HD as a HD2, but it is of my understanding, from his pen, that the switch has been made & is in effect.

Furthermore, regarding your curiosity in "just ordering one" from Konosuke. You will undoubtedly recognize from reading the forum, as you said you would, that Mark has approximately 500 knives on back order with Konosuke. They just can't keep up with our demand. It is a small spinoff company from a child, Kosuke, of the Kaneshige Cutlery family. I raise this point to you as I "just ordered one" from them... in May. ;) "Just ordering one" takes awhile as you can deduce...

If you have the patience, Mark may very well accept your order for a G3 Damascus in whatever size Gyuto you decide on... (e.g., http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kogistdade18.html )

FYI: ...things can be so different, and sometimes so much the same.

"Who knew.?!" 8-)

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=505



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:29 am 
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Just in case then....

What would be the next best knife to consider that would be similar to the Kono HD in all aspects or at least in performance?

I have considered:

Takeda
Moritaka

But shied away because essentially I wanted a more care-free laser that was at least semi-stainless.



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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:02 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 625
Location: Philippines
Check out sakai takayuki


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 Post subject: Re: New Japanese knife for a culinary student.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:48 pm 
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CORP <> Next “best” is a relative comment. The two additional you mention are reactive blue steel knives; very different knives.

You originally mentioned you wanted a “Japanese knife.” Does that mean Japanese steel or Japanese handle? The Kukiuchi TKC line is another semi-stainless steel on the site. But it’s Western handled, and I wouldn't recommend it over a Kono HD because you are interested in a laser & the Kono is thinner leaving the point somewhat moot.

The Takayuki was raised. Awesome stainless in G3 or AEB-L, not a bad thing, but not an apple to apple with the HD which is relatively unique. I guess the Hokiyama Sakons are somewhat similar w/SKD11, but not really; plus they’re Damascus clad. But then if you consider full stainless, you have more premium choices, as well. Richmond Laser (AEB-L), Suisin Inox Honyaki (19c27), Kono HH (basically a HD), blah, blah, blah. And if you’re now considering stainless knives, as well as carbon knives… then howbout stainless clad knives: Kanehiro AOS, Fujiwara Nishiji, Masakage Yuki, Itto-Ryu, Hiromoto (western-handle)? I know you’re indecision is due lack of knowledge, but you really open up the rabbit hole with vague questions like this. I say vague, in that, it is morphing as you go. As well it should, your opinion, as you learn.

As for the Takeda : Moritaka. I own Moritaka; never used a Takeda. Everyone loves them [Takeda], I detest his Gyuto dimensions. Takeda is highly esteemed for his forge, and the AOS is awesome… but reactive. I love my Moritaka AOS. They are known to have a more “rustic” fit & finish, then the Takeda. Furthermore, the Takedas are known to be thinner.

My thing with JK newbies, like you, is this… every 16 year-old wants a Porsche. Hey, some of them know what to do with it, but is it best? You learn more driving a high performance vehicle before a hyper performance one? You’re using soft Wusthof steel probably around Rc 55-56. You hop into Japanese steel at Rc 59-60, you are going to recognize such an outstanding performance improvement in ability to take an edge, ability to hold said edge and improved grind geometry that is going to make your Passat feel like a Skyline. At Rc 59-60... 61 tops, you have a durability and ability to take abuse that you will not recognize in AOS @Rc65-66. Knives that hard are more brittle; they can be prone to chip if not treated appropriately.

I have to get back to work. This was longer than a typical hit & run…



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