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Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:49 pm

I've got an Aritsugu gyuto that is classically asymmetric. I'm not one of these sharpening gurus. I don't have a "SharpMaster 2000" or anything fancy. I couldn't tell you if it is "80/20" or "60/40" or whatever. I just sharpen it following the steeper angle on one side and the shallower angle on the other. Works like a charm for me.

Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:31 pm

One thing I am concerned about is wont an asymmetrical edge lead to steering. I also am by no means a sharpening guru, I hand sharpen on stones and if I really start to bugger the edge up I send it out to a professional. My knife cuts only matter to me, I don't work in a kitchen where a head chef walks around all snooty telling me my batonnet cuts need work. I work in a place where you can use a carrot punch if it is not broken and a select few use a knife because they actually give a shit and I happen to be one of them. I need moderate performance and maximum durability but I respect my knives and don't throw them around like the work beaters. I am starting to like the Kikuichi knives btw and I apologize if I am coming off like an angry newb, this is just a lot to process and you guys seem so knowledgeable.

Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:42 pm

The good news is that you've got a good mix of knife nuts and people with commercial kitchen experience here.

I won't say that every knife CKTG sells is a great knife for me, nor that a specific knife that is great for me will be great for you. I will say that you'll likely be guided to a few knives that will work very well for you and will be exceptional within their class.

CKTG carries a few lines to meet people with very different needs -- each tends to be exceptional in their own way.

There is a lot to process, but I think that the overall weight, blade shape, handle, and "edge retention" will make more of a difference than an asymmetric grind. Especially in a commercial setting, you want a knife that works for you, rather than having to work to use the knife.

BTW, I don't think that my wife even knows that the Aritsugu is biased for right-handed users and it has become one of her favorite knives to use in our home kitchen.
Last edited by jeff on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:43 pm

Yes, asymmetry CAN lead to steering issues if the asymmetry isn't sharpened into the edge.

A. Unless you seriously askew the edge off the centerline, you'll have a hard time noticing it. If you only slightly don't follow the asymmetry, you may never know. Can you really tell the difference between a 55/45 and a 60/40 or a 75/25 and a 65/35? I can't, and I've been doing this a long time.

B. Even if you seriously askew the edge off the centerline, and notice the steering, it's not life and death stuff UNLESS you go really askew. Taking a 80/20 knife and turning it into a 20/80 knife will probably really be noticeable.

C. The thicker the knife, the more noticeable changes in asymmetrical edges are. So on a laser, the edge is so thin and the knife is so thin that it's harder to tell than on an axe. The Masamoto isn't a laser and isn't an axe....it's reasonably thin.

D. Knowing that a knife is asymmetrical is 90% of the battle. Even attempting to keep the edge right will likely mean you never have any problems.

Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:53 pm

Do your batonnet need work?

Steering is usually caused by a combination of bad technique (mostly a bad grip) and asymmetry. Until they approach chisel, asymmetric V edges usually don't steer without a death grip of some sort.

If you've ever successfully used a hand saw, you know that a soft grip makes for a straight cut. Alla time same same.


Re: My new workhorse

Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:46 pm

"Even attempting to keep the edge right will likely mean you never have any problems."

This is good to know and very reassuring because I feel like I do pay special attention to the fine details when I sharpen, I just don't want to get in over my head and bite off more knife than can chew.

"Do your batonnet need work?"

Yes they could use a little work :lol:

Re: My new workhorse

Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:39 pm

Well it is official people, my assumed workhorse is in the mail. I was intimidated by the Masamoto's 70/30 grind so I ended up going with the Kikuichi TKC Performance 270mm Gyuto purchased from CKTG. I also got a bunch of the laminated card stock knife sheaths because I love them and it seems like you cant buy them anywhere. Anyway, I will let you guys know how I like it and whether or not it is my true go to knife or just one that I break out for special tasks.

Re: My new workhorse

Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:03 pm

Ohhhh, the TKC....one of my favorites.

Re: My new workhorse

Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:33 pm

I am glad you like it because I highly value your opinion. I went with the 270 for added weight and I figured what's .4 of an inch compared to my ten inch chef knife, also the 240 was out of stock. My next purchase will more than likely be a traditional japanese 240 gyutos. Anyway, looking forward to getting and working with it, will let you guys know how I like it.

Re: My new workhorse

Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:37 am

Well I received my Kikuichi yesterday and brought it to work today to put it through its paces and am very satisfied. It does feel like a workhorse, it is much heavier than I expected which is great and the geometry feels great even though I was a bit concerned when I got it because it does have a lot of belly for a Japanese style knife. I was a little unimpressed with the OOTB edge and I did hit it on my highest grit stone which is only 5,000 before I used it but I need to give it a real good sharpening session. Either way, first day review, I will post more as I have had more time for the knife to prove itself and I still did reach for my Mac which is a lowly Chef Series a couple times and it still proved itself and makes me realize that I still do really like it as well. Thanks for all you boys help in the great debate I was having, I think I made an excellent choice but I am sure I will have to buy another knife eventually if not just for obsession.
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