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 Post subject: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 12:12 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 8
I am deciding between these gyutos, but because they are relatively new there isn't much info/reviews on them.


I like the look of the Kiri gyuto, but I have heard negative things about VG-10 steel. The Kiri is made of VG-10 and I am wondering if it is worth it to spend $300 on a possibly mediocre VG-10 steel blade? Is this blade solid VG-10?

I also like the look of the Shimo gyuto, and I love the positive video review seen on this website. It is a little cheaper than the Kiri, but I would love some info on how quickly this white steel blade will patina or rust, and would this patina/rust cover up the design of the blade? I ask because I don't want to spend close to $300 on a beautiful blade with intricate designs only to have the patina cover it up...

The Yuki gyuto doesn't look as great as the others (it's decent), but it is the only solid choice right now with my lack of information. The stainless cladding over the white carbon steel seems like a pretty decent setup, BUT if any of you guys can offer some information or opinions on the other above knives that would be great!


If it makes a difference... I have experience on norton synthetic stones, which I would probably sharpen the gyuto with, a Belgian cuticle natural hone, and a natural finishing waterstone. I use these to sharpen my straight razors


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:23 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1623
I have not used any of the Masakage lineup, but I can try to answer some of the more general questions.

VG10 it is a quality steel but is not widely considered to be top tier. I would not necessarily decide against the knife on account of the steel as steel performance differs largely on the margin. It is easy to get to caught up in the "this steel is better than that" thinking. In most cases, if you were to sharpen the Shirogami #2 side by side with VG10 the Shirogami would sharpen up easier, de-burr easier, and take a keener edge. Edge retention might actually favor the VG10... The quality of the heat treat also matters, Masakage may have a magic bullet for VG10...

Patina on Damascus cladding can mute the definition between the cladding layer or accentuate it, it depends on what the blade is reacting to. I do not think that the patina will mask it entirely, it is a question of degree.

The Yuki is very well thought of. I do think part of its appeal is its Goldilocks characteristics.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3951
Love Masakage knives.....but......VG10 is not a steel I'm looking for in a $300 knife, but that's just me.



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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:06 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:37 pm
Posts: 59
MM980 you might also check this thread: masakage-mizu-150mm-petty-t6598.html - Melampus posted a photo and wrote several interesting things about Masakages.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:23 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 8
That is very interesting, mjwit, and thanks for all of these quick replies. Was Melampus saying the edge was too brittle for sharpening/handling without chipping, or was just too sharp?


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2268
Music, the Kiri 240 I played with for the QL video was a very nice knife. If you're looking at an all stainless, high performance, great looking, Gyuto with great ergonomics, the Kiri is one of my top picks. It's expensive, but IMO it's worth the $$. I wouldn't fret over Kato San's VG-10.

The Kiri is not quite as thin at the edge as the Yuki series, which is probably a good thing. You just need to use good technique as an extra measure on knives like these with thin edges. The Yuki Gyuto I have can be a bit hyper sensitive to the slightest sloppy technique at the edge. You can feel and hear it if you start to torque the knife on the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:01 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 8
I mean I'm not a butcher when it comes to knives haha, I'm very gentle when it comes to shaving my face with a 7/8" straight razor. That incredibly thin edge on the Yuki, that you make sound so brittle, can supposedly take a lot of hits on the cutting board (like all knives), so what would the Yuki not tolerate? Scraping the edge sideways, twisting the blade?

I'm just figuring out if it takes a complete buffoon that handles a knife like an axe to wreck that Yuki edge. :) If I'm going to get a nice knife, I'd like one that will grow with my technique, not get left behind, and one that is in the lower 200's in price.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
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Any of these will grow with you as your skill set increases. On the Yuki or really almost any reasonably thin Japanese Gyuto, yes, we're talking scraping, torqueing/twisting motions, hitting bones, cutting frozen food, hard chocolate, letting the knife edge slam into the cutting board on cuts where force is developed, then released when improperly cutting through hard product like certain squash, etc.

Remember, in general (not always), as the steel gets harder and the edges get thinner, a knife will be less robust against mistreatment of any kind. Chipping at the edge is more common versus the deformation that one might see on softer steel knives like Euro chef knives.

Are you looking at 210's or 240's? You haven't stated this yet.

If you want to keep to low $200's, then we can give reco's in that price range. That would drop the Kiri off your list.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:58 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 8
I'm a tallish guy with biggish hands so I guess 240 would be better? If there is an astounding knife just outside of that price range I would consider it.


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 Post subject: Re: Masakage Kiri, Shimo, and Yuki gyuto
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2268
I'd recommend a 240. The Anryu Hammered Gyuto is a really nice 240 that's not super expensive: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kaanasgy24.html.

Anytime a Richmond Laser AS 240 Gyuto comes in stock - these are really great performers with great steel: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rilaaosu24gy.html.


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