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 Post subject: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:16 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1841
1. Are you right handed?
Righty

2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..)
3. What size knife are you looking for?

240mm gyuto, carbon cutting edge, thin grind:
I have a Tojiro DP gyuto, a Richmond Artifex gyuto, and a Tanaka Kurouchi Nakiri. The Tojiro is painfully thick. The Artifex is really growing on me after the last sharpening, I thinned behind the edge and made the final angle much more acute, I love how light and nimble it is now. The Tanaka is the unquestioned best grind and edge of the lot. I don't like the nakiri shape for most uses, but the Tanaka beats all the others handedly.

4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel?
Carbon at cutting edge:
I have found the Tojiro DP to have a dead feeling. The Richmond Artifex, and Tanaka Kurouchi Nakiri all have a better feel to me. I assume it is the clad construction of the Tojiro so right now I am biased toward mono-steel. Is the feel of the Tojiro uniquely dead, or can I expect that of other clad knives?

5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle?
Japanese

6. How much did you want to spend?
I would spend up to $250, but my list of likely candidates are around $200 and below

7. Do you know how to sharpen?
Yes

I feel I have narrowed my search down to a few laser types, but wanted some feedback on how some of you knowledgeable folks might compare these guys:

Kohetsu: pros: price, Aogami Super; cons: clad, not available yet
Tanaka Sekiso Damascus: pros: price, available; cons: clad
Sakai Yusuke: pros: mono steel; cons: above $200, out-of-stock

Runners up:
Moritaka Supreme: is this clad? pros: Aogami Super; cons: above $200, kurouchi finish can be a bit sticky when going through food
Konosuke White #2: is this worth waiting for or the price? The Konos seem to be the standard everything else is measured by, I would love to be in the know about them, but that price...ouch.

Thank all you guys for your time thoughts, I really enjoy reading them.

-


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3755
Location: USA... mostly.
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#1. The Moritaka is clad w/a reactive iron.

#2. The shironiko Konosuke gyuto is a quintessential laser, and she is worth every cent of the $238 tag... anything worth having is worth waiting for.



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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4245
If you want a laser, Kono is the standard by which all else is measured, and for good reason. It is a premium knife and therefore commands a premium price. It's a great performer and won't disappoint. Once the money is gone, $200, $250, what's the difference?! :mrgreen: ;)



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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:44 pm 

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 am
Posts: 316
Location: Amstelveen, The Netherlands
About the dead feeling with the Tojiro: not so sure whether it has to do with the cladding or with the VG-10 core. My monosteel VG-10 feels damped if I compare it to my carbons.


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:43 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1841
Is the quality jump from what I am using now to something like the Konosuke too much for me to appreciate or should there be an intermediary step there to learn higher quality knives?

Can anyone comment on the comparison between the Sakai Yusuke and the Konosuke Wt #2 as they appear to be the most similar in terms of specs?

Mark, do you have any idea when you might expect either the Konosuke or the Sakai Yusuke back in stock...for that matter, an eta on the Kohetsu?

Thanks again all


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:06 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 172
Location: Austin tX
You seem to really like the artifex, so why not Richmond laser aeb-l. I first bought the artifex loved it and moved on to the laser and love it even more, it really fly through any food


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2861
Location: CT
The Kohetsu is an awesome cutter, but like you said, it's clad. Same with the Tanaka Sekiso; it's clad and a little thicker than a laser, but it cuts incredibly well. Ditto for the Laser AS Richmond series; laser thin behind the edge and then has some nice convexing as you go up the blade and it gets a little thicker. If you want a laser out of these three, go with the Kohetsu. The other 2 are lighter than a workhorse, but a bit heavier than a true laser.

The Kono White #2 or HD will both be great knives. The Sakai Yasuke White #2 is very very similar to the Konosuke, maybe get whichever comes in stock first?

For the Tanaka, note that the KU series gyuto and the Ginsan gyuto's are a good bit thicker in their grind than the Sekiso series. I have 3 of the Sekiso knives and love them!

Carbon laser, Kono and Sakai are the 2 main names in mono steel. Kohetsu is close, but it's clad. The Tanaka Sekiso and Laser AS are thicker, but cut very very well.


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:35 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1841
The Artifex has grown on me a lot since I worked on it some. But I have developed a preference for the carbon knives. I love how quick, and fine an edge they take and I feel I get a lot of feedback from them while sharpening. The AEB-L has grown on me...but not quite the same. I also have a Fujiwara FKH and the patina is just plain cool...so there is that.


Thanks for the comparisons Taz. Any thoughts on whether the price difference between the Kono and Kohetsu is warranted? I totally get the whole apples and oranges problem here...but that's a new stone or a petty on the table.


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2861
Location: CT
I have a 210mm Kohetsu and a 270 Kono HD Ultimatum here and a White #2 300mm Suji from Kono and have had a few other Kono's in for new shoes or saya's, including a Fujiyama. The Kohetsu is pretty dang close to the Kono and the AS steel will hold an edge a bit better than the White steel will. It will patina on the edge, but the cladding will stay shiny since it's stainless steel. The Kohetsu is just about as thin as the Kono. The Kohetsu I believe runs truer to length on the edge (240mm Kono's are like 235mm). Handle F&F is great on both, I will check the spine/choil F&F when I get home, but I don't remember there being any major issues with either.

I would say that the Kohetsu performs on par with the Kono performance wise, too. Great grind, great HT, good F&F.


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 Post subject: Re: laser gyuto with carbon cutting edge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:34 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
Posts: 333
The Kono and Yusuke are very similar the specs on the 240 are almost identical. I have the 240 Yusuke and a 210 Kono and the fit and finish are also very close in comparison. I like the handle on the Yusuke it has a slight taper from the back to the furrule. It is also alittle thicker than the Kono. Handle on the Kono is slightly longer and thinner. The white#2 is the least reactive of my carbon blades. Easy to sharpen and maintain. Weight on my 240 Yusuke is 136 grams. For a laser it has a surprisingly stiff spine , not wimpy very little flex for its light weight. You cannot go wrong with either.


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