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 Post subject: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 207
Location: Austin, TX
Decisions, decisions, decisions . . . I cannot decide.

First, I am a right handed home cook that is into knives and has enough stones (synthetic and natural) to build a foundation for a shed :o . I am having a difficult time deciding between the Konosuke lines. Do I want clad or single steel? Laser or Not? Currently the nicest knife I own is a Moritaka 250KS which I really like! Not quite sure if you would call it a laser, but it is thin and light. Carbon or SS not an issue for me (I take good care of my knives and don't mind the "timing" required by carbon), but I do love a patina and the potential contrast between layers, so I guess SS is not a selling point for me.

I do like the look of the san-mai blade with the differing lines between the steels, but I also have a Hokiyama Damascus (210mm) and the construction makes it feel numb compared to my Moritaka. Not considering price (but I guess this lineup puts us in the $300-500 range), but staying in line with the steels and construction, I would love to hear feedback on the various lines. I really like the rosewood handles, but the blond ferrule with the lighter handle would add some contrast in my collection. I just would like to understand what it looks like after being exposed to swarf or other things that might make it look dirty.

Anyway, I know there are a BUNCH of Konosuke fans out there and I cannot even count the number of times that I have read something like, "Everyone should own a Konosuke at some time" so now it is time to back that up or identify another preference.

Thanks for replying, folks!!



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:17 am 
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BADBOY <> Since you like light lively blades, it's pretty much a no brainer for you to pick up a White#2 Laser http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2wa27.html This is the quintessential laser...

If you stain your Ho handle with swarf, you can scrub it out w/steel wool. If your ferrule becomes dull, you can polish it out.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:32 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 207
Location: Austin, TX
Melampus: Thanks for the reply and you put the light colored handle question to rest for me.

The knife you point out is about the same weight as my Moritaka, but 270mm so it sure is a light one! I was really looking forward to your reply since you have seem to have used many Konosuke knives, I was hoping you could compare your experience with the different steels. I am now wondering if the 270mm recommendation is because the 240 is not in stock, because Konosuke's tend to run short, or if that is the length you like since I did not specify in my post.

I am also really interested in feedback on the construction (not just Melampus here). Is the numbness typical on clad knifes and since my Moritaka is clad (in softer iron I believe) why I don't feel the same numbness with that as I do with the Hokiyama. Is it the thickness or cladding material? Could it be that it is only 210mm where I am accustomed to longer knives?



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:29 pm 
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The "numbness" is somewhat typical of a clad knife. You're adding a soft layer to either side of a hard layer...that soft layer numbs the impact of the knife to the board, or to anything else. It's there....whether it bothers you or not is personal. It doesn't me for the most part, so I don't comment on it too much.

Of the knives you list as potential purchases, I'd take either the HD2 or the white (either the solid white #2 series, or a white Fujiyama)...depending on what you want. The HD2 series and White #2 series that's solid steel are of course both solid steel, so if you like that aspect, I'd pick between those two.

I've used and sharpened I believe every knife CKTG carries amongst the Konosuke line's except the Ginsan series.

The Fujiyama series is special to me....something about them makes me enjoy them immensely. The one's I've owned and seen were incredibly thing and extremely well made. But, they definitely have that "numbness" you don't seem to like.

The White #2 solid knives are very nice as well....but you can definitely tell they're not made to the standards of the Fujiyama series. However, they're $100 more as well. And that's not to say the solid White #2 are bad knives by any stretch....they might be a better KNIFE in fact. Just that you can tell the construction of the Fujiyama is just done by someone, not something. If that makes sense, I'm impressed with myself.

The same is true of all of the rest of the Konosuke line as well.....

The Fujiyama, Honyaki, and ZDP knives are all made individually I believe.....whereas the others have that stamped out and ground feel.

Again, that doesn't mean they're not a bad knife.....not by any means.

You weren't specific about what attributes you're after and I'm a huge Konosuke fan....so that's my take.

If you want a knife you feel the maker in, buy a Fujiyama.

If you can't stand that "numb" feeling, buy a HD2 or White #2 solid knife. Between the two....buy based on whether you want a patina or not cause the difference in steel is quite small.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am
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Location: Austin, TX
Guys, thank you so much for your attention to this thread. Adam, you point out the numbness and considering I have pretty close to a Laser in the Moritaka, I am thinking more along the lines of a clad knife simply for the aesthetic aspect and to try something to broaden my perspective a bit. The 210 is too small for me (I bought it as a gift), so that is probably contributing to my perspective. I am curious why Melampus recommended a 270mm so I will wait for his reply, but I gotta say that I am leaning toward the Fujiwara Blue #2 Funayuki/Gyuto 240mm.

I really like the concept of feeling the maker and his efforts in crafting the knife. Kinda like natural stones mined hundreds of years ago, there is just something special about that. I like the flatness of the other knives I have, so Funayuki gets the check mark. How does 210grams compare to other knives. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to go from 175 to 210 grams, and in fact could feel a little more capable. Unless there is something significantly lighter than my 175 gram Moritaka getting something in a little different class sounds pretty cool.

Feel free to add any more thoughts, I don't have to pull the trigger immediately and really want my next selection to be thoughtful.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:11 am 
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Fujiyama Blue #2 240mm Funy is one of those knives on my list for future purchase, after I get my blue #2 Honyaki :) Profile and grinds look awesome and I really like Kono's Funy shape!


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:11 pm 
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I don't think you'd notice that much weight difference.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:18 pm
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BB,

I've heard folks say that since Konosukes are thin and light (especially the lasers in HD2 and White #2), they feel shorter than they are. They also tend to run a bit short (e.g., a 240 will likely be in the low 230s in actual length). So, it might be a relatively quick and easy adjustment to a longer knife. I've never handled one of their 270s, but I'm curious. I think a 240, even if it's a bit short, should be fine for a home cook, though a 270 may not be out of the question. My guess (and only my guess) is that most folks could be happy with either.

In terms of weight, the lasers in HD2 and white #2 come in at the 135-145 gram range, which (I think) would feel a bit lighter than 175. Though it sounds like you're leaning more toward the Fujiyama series, which are more in the medium range for weight and thickness.


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:36 pm 
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I have the Kono HD Ultimatum 270mm, but it's actually 285mm on the blade edge. I normally use only 240's, but this big one is lighter than some of my 240's and the extra length isn't any problem. I even use it on my 12" board and just have the tip hanging off the board when I am chopping :)


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke HD, HD2, White #2 and Blue #2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:21 am 
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TROY <> I recommended the White #2, I didn't recommend a size; my linking to the 270 was for example. A length recommendation is sort of moot as it is your personal preference. You have a Mori KS that I reckon is 250 on the edge like my Masamoto KS that it is a clone of. The Kono W#2's are 235 & 265, respectively (the HD's are 235, 265, 275 & 285). I have Moritaka AS, but I don't have his KS replica. I can & will say, there is a dramatic difference between my 240Kono W#2 & my Masamoto 250KS. The Kono W#2 is not sort of a laser, it is the quintessential laser. Also, don't think it's all about weight that make it feel differently. A laser is a very unique feel due to geometry. The KS is a middleweight, and does not feel like a laser. Maybe the iron-clad Moritaka KS replica you have is somehow lighter & more nimble in hand than the KS, but I doubt it. I do not have the W#2 in 270 to compare & contrast it to the KS as I have the HD in 270Funa which is 275. I can say I imagine the W#2 in 270, 1.5cm longer than your Mori, will still actually feel much lighter than your MoritakaKS even though it is the same weight. The Kono laser is a really really light knife in hand. CKTG weighs the 240W#2 @145grams, but mine is 139.

"How does 210grams compare to other knives. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to go from 175 to 210 grams, and in fact could feel a little more capable. Unless there is something significantly lighter than my 175 gram Moritaka getting something in a little different class sounds pretty cool."

If you're comparing weight of a B#2Fujiyama240 to a 240W#2, there is no comparison. The W#2 is 35% lighter... that's huge. Even to your Mori, it's 30-40 grams lighter, thats not a little deal.


The Fuji & Lasers are really different knives. You started this out commenting on liking a lively light knife... Kono W#2 it is.

Remember, we have a classified section. I'd buy the W#2, and in the highly unlikely case that it doesn't blow your mind - it will sell off instantly. Same goes for the Fuji. Shiite, you can probably sell it directly to TAZ if you thought it was too numb. Thing is... you'll love either one because they're both magical in their own rights.



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