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 Post subject: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:47 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 48
Hello,

I have decided my next kitchen knife is going to be either the Konosuke White #2 Fujiyama Gyuto or the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 Gyuto 240mm. While the White is out of stock, it is the knife I am leaning towards because the extra $100 is a nice chunk of the Chosera stones for the EP. I am not opposed to the more expensive Blue Fuji, but for my own usage I am not sure if the steel justifies the higher price and hope you can help me here.

For background on my usage, this knife is getting used at the home and not professionally. It will be used on a maple board, and it is cleaned after usage. I will probably force a grapefruit patina on it, and reactivity is not a big deal. In terms of edge retention, I have a 51200 Richmond Addict I absolutely love, which gives more than plenty edge holding. While a longer held edge isn't a bad thing, it's not something I feel a need for as weekly touchup of my 52100 Richmond works great for me. I like how White steel takes a very sharp edge easily, and is an extremely aggressively cutting steel with a varieties of finishes. I am not particularly hard on edges, but I do use a 240 gyuto for almost all food prep that involves foods which are not notoriously hard on knives. I use a Wustoff on foods that aren't suited to a thin gyuto. I have a HD I love, but I've read the Fuji is the Kono to have and so I am ready to purchase one of them.


I have a few questions for anyone who has happened to own or use both knives to help understand the difference between and if the pricing is warranted...
    1) How much of a difference is Kono's White 2 vs. Kono Blue 2? (from my usage Blue has slightly greater wear resistance and is slightly less reactive, but given the HT has such an affect on steels, I have not enough experience with Kono's Blue 2)
    2) The bevel on the Blue Fuji appears to be wider/taller - is this a primary difference between the Blue and White Fujis or just individual variation? (I personally like the taller bevels as I find they cut better and are easy to maintain)
    3) To my understanding, the blade shape (other than the bevel and the slightly thicker blade on the Blue), the handle, the ferrule, the engraving work, the finish, the fit & finish, and the same Blacksmith that does all of the Fujis are all of the same quality between these two knives, correct?
    4) Any other differences or observations between the two knives?

thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:28 am 
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I own Konosuke Fujiyama B#2 240gyuto, a W#2 270gyuto, and I have handled KonoFuji funayukis & gyutos in numerous lengths, steels, & constructions from clad to Honyaki.

The profiles differ between lines (i.e., 240B#2gyuto:240W#1gyuto), AND they differ from knife to knife (i.e., 240B#2gyuto:240B#2gyuto). These knives are hand made, and are not homogenous commodities spit off a factory line. I just handled a 240W#1gyuto that had much less belly than my 240B#2gyuto of which has way too much... IMO. Case in point, 240FujiB#2gyuto is not the same profile as a 240FujiW#2gyuto... or maybe there is one that is.. remember they are handmade and therefore they differ. I could go on ad nauseum about fujiyamas that don't match profiles, but you know they're handmade so I'll save you the nonsensical rhetoric.

The difference between the Whites are steel purity; the difference between them & the Blue is grind. The Blue has a classical design employing a large bevel from shinogi to final edge bevel. This allows a silly thin profile behind the edge. The whites are like lasers that have been fattened enough for the grinders to have some meat to sculpt.

It's like comparing a KonoHD to a RichmondASLaser... different designs.

Regarding steel attributes, the vast majority can not discern any difference between this or that, and I'd buy for profile/design... personally.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:12 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 48
Thanks!

As I am really not super knowledgable anywhere near the level of detail that you know, a rather simple and silly question I have is do you personally see one of the two as a better design for a general workhorse in the kitchen? (I only really use four knives...a paring knife, a gyuto, a thick Wustoff 8 inch, and a serrated bread knife...and of that, the first two perform 99% of the work).

From what you are saying, it sounds like the bigger debate will be on the grind versus the steel. thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:25 am 
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As a workhorse, the white(s) have a more robust grind.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:11 pm 
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I'm going to ignore Mel's comments for a second and answer your questions one by one:

Your observations on White #2 versus Blue #2 are spot on. Blue is more highly alloyed leading to less reactive and in this case at least the better edge holding. Blue #2 will not take as keen of an edge as white #2 and will be harder to sharpen. Both of these, however, are very difficult to discover unless you're very attuned to the differences.

I've seen my fare share of Fujiyama and they do vary from piece to piece. I believe different people make both series, and each is hand made....so some differences can be observed easily. My initial white steel Fujiyama (bought long, long ago) was extremely thin. Since I've noticed they tend to run a bit thicker than the blue series. Not sure why. The "height" of the bevel doesn't mean squat. It's, at least in every case I've seen, more of an applied "bevel" with no discernible change in grind. My initial White #2 looked more like the blue #2 on CKTG site.

No, I don't believe that's correct. I believe there are different forgers and grinders for each of the lines......but it's been a long time since I had the conversation I'm recalling and I could totally be incorrect.

#4....see Mel's comments. :)

Now, back to Mel's comments. My thoughts rather much mirror his. I've found the white #2 series to be slightly more robust as of late. However, that COULD change based on which knife you get. Neither is a true workhorse IMHO....at least none I've seen....and lean more towards the laser category.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Nick, check out my video on this product page: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kofuwh1na18.html. This is a perfect example of how the visual "bevel" on the Fujiyama White #1/#2 series doesn't always indicate where the actual grind starts on the knife. I compare the White #1 Nakiri to the Blue #2 Nakiri "bevels" versus actual grinds


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
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Like Adam and Melampus have mentioned the grinds are going to vary slightly on each individual Fujiyama blade. I have a 240 white#2 Fuji that is about 1 year old and the blade and grind is a little more robust than the 270 white 2 Fuji I purchased 2 months ago. Likewise with a 240 blue #1 I got from the batch of " blades without handles " that Mark had on the site recently. The more recent blades are very thin at the edge . The blue steel blades have a more defined secondary bevel moving up the blade from the edge to the spine. I found the blue steel initially more reactive than my white blades. They settle down and the patinas on my white and blue steel blades are now pretty uniform. These are carbon clad blades so the cladding over the core white or blue steel is also reactive and can vary on each knife. I do not find much of a difference in performance in the steel. They are easy to sharpen and keep sharp . These are the top of the line in performance and fit and finish. You will be very happy with either steel.


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:34 pm 
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NICZAC <> Just to clarify any ambiguity, I did not say, "the whites are workhorses because they have a more robust grind."

To explain what I did say, quite literally, is that if you were looking to buy a Fujiyama as your everyday go-to knife - ignoring the connotation that people attach to "workhorse" as a heavy-duty knife as if Webster had a definition - the whites have a more robust grind. If I interpreted your text correctly though, you prefer the large bevel of the B#2 series. Generally speaking (as I've explained ad nauseum here) the B#2 series knives are thinner behind the edge, and will slice through a lot of items with slightly less friction than the whites. Personally, I prefer the design of the Whites as I'm not a huge fan of the large tall bevel on gyutos like the RichmondASLaser & aforementioned B#2KonoFuji... I find said design more appropriate on sujis.

That said, I had also explained that these knives can differ dramatically from line to line & knife to knife. ADAM MARR has seen exponentially more Fujis than I have, and his words affirm the points I mentioned above in my first post. Again, these blades are not a commodity; they are artistic renderings of skilled craftsmen, and although current day offerings seem to follow a general mold, these knives are as unique as a snowflake.



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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
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Melampus: I like your reference : these knives are as unique as snowflake! Right on and the White #2 are less $ expensive and perfect for a home kitchen!


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 Post subject: Re: Konosuke Fujiyama Gyuto: White #2 vs Blue #2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:49 pm 
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For the record, nothing I said should contradict what Mel said......I understand his "As a workhorse, the white(s) have a more robust grind." exactly as he seems to have meant it.



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