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Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:40 am
I have read many threads about knives and literally want to get a whole set of japanese knives from you as you seem to be the most reliable store owner. Anyway, I really want to have konosuke fujiyama blue #2 gyuto (which is out of stock), but since I am very anxious, I see that you have a Konosuke Fujiyama White #1 Gyuto 240 W/ Custom Saya in stock. It looks good and I am ready to purchase, but the thought that blue #2 steel may be better than white #1 doesn't let me go. So, Do you think that it's not a big difference while compared white 1 and blue 2 steels, or it's better to wait until you get a blue 2 Kono Fuji knife?
Thanks a lot,
Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:43 am
There are advantages and disadvantages to both steels and these are slight differences.
White #1 is easier to sharpen. It can take a finer edge (theoretically) because it has smaller carbides. It is usually tougher and less likely to chip.
Blue #2 is harder to sharpen, It holds it's edge a little longer, it can be a little chippy.
Both are excellent. If you know how to sharpen I would recommend the white #1. If you don't and do not care to learn get the Blue #2.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:45 am
PS I didn't talk about heat treatment since we're talking about the same blacksmith. Others can heat treat the steels differently to give it slightly different characteristics.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:46 am
Although there are differences between white #1 and blue #2, they are both great, great steels. I actually prefer white over blue, but only slightly because I feel I can get it sharper and do so more easily.
Blue is still a great steel and should hold an edge slightly better...but it's certainly not a night and day difference.
They're both quite similar until you really set out to find the differences.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:46 am
Ha...Mark types faster than me.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:31 pm
I think they are generally classified in this order:
AS Super Blue
There is also White saw timber steel, Green paper steel #1/2, Yellow paper steel #1/2, Silver steel #1,3 and 5 and ATS34/55.
Blue paper steel is essentially white paper steel, with a few things added to improve edge retention, and i've heard that blue is very slightly more corrosion resistant than white. Like the guys said, white is supposed to be able to get slightly sharper, but needs to be sharpened more often. I have a #2 blue knife that i strop every time anyway, to retain that maximum sharpness feel. I'd like to have my main knives AS and White #1. ZDP189 looks nice...but big $.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:39 pm
...and additionally, like Mark said, heat treatment, etc...add's a degree of +/- to the classification...so, you can get a white #2 knife that is more expensive and professionally made than a white #1 knife...even though white #1 generally considered to be better. How the maker forges the steel, etc...has more impact on the finished product.
That is, except for ZDP189 and AS. They generally rule the roost.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:59 pm
The following is purely conversational....it in no way disagrees with anything said by anyone in this thread.
Silver refers to the stainless Ginsanko series of steels.
Yellow Paper is often what's used in "Carbon" or "High Carbon" knives.....knives that don't necessarily say what carbon they're using. It's about akin to our 1095 and 1084 here that a lot of camp/hunting knife guys use in my opinion.
ZDP189 is a stainless powdered steel.....really nothing like the white and blue steels. I reckon you're just listing the Hitachi steels in some order, but just having a conversation.
I'd also take Shirogami #1 or #2 over any of the others every day given all other things equal.
I'm not a big fan of ZDP189 really. Not a fan of powdered steels really in any regard.
Aogami Super is certainly a nice steel, but I don't like to sharpen it as much as Shirogami #1 or #2.....and I much prefer steels that are easy to sharpen.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:15 pm
Adam Marr wrote:I'm not a big fan of ZDP189 really. Not a fan of powdered steels really in any regard.
Adam, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on this more in depth.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:57 pm
Thanks for your input adam! I remember seeing that list referenced somewhere, but i can't remember where. It's just that though...a general scope. Not sure if i can remember where i found it though. I do have another paper, in japanese from Hitachi describing all the steels mentioned and their contents.
For me, i don't have any problem sharpening Aogami. I find it very fast in fact, on a basic King stone. Within 5 minutes on a stone and strop...near razor sharp refresh. Much faster than any stainless i've had. Haven't tried any white tho...
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