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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:13 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 429
Location: ATL
Jeff - Please clarify the relationship between the EP and needing to be thinned. I'm not following you. Also, does that apply to a lightweight thin knife such as the one we are talking about here?

Also, while I certainly see the need for a stop, is this edge retention that I'm seeing on this knife out of the ordinary for the relatively small amount of use it's being exposed to in my situation? I would think what I do in 10 sessions couldn't be more than what a full day in a professional kitchen would subject the blade to under normal circumstances.

I'd love to hear from other owners of the Richmond AEB-L laser.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:45 am 

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 am
Posts: 317
Location: Amstelveen, The Netherlands
Even with so-called stainless, at least the edge should be wiped off after use, just as with a carbon, or it will dull -- somewhat. The protective layer of chromiumoxide won't work for the very edge after use.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:22 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1865
"Please clarify the relationship between the EP and needing to be thinned."

As you sharpen the knife, with time, you wear further and further up the blade. As you wear further up, you work your way into thicker and thicker steel. This means that even if the bevel is polished, and the edge is refined there is so much thickness behind the edge that food pinches the blade at the shoulder between the bevel and the blade.

Thinning the knife involves grinding the area directly behind the bevel. If your bevel is sharpened at 15°, then you would thin the blade by polishing at ~10° or so.

"...is this edge retention that I'm seeing on this knife out of the ordinary..."

I am a home cook and I have two knives in AEB-L, though neither is the Richmond Laser. I strop or steel my knives before every use and the edges seem to last months. I have experimented with lightly abusing the edges or skipping stropping/steeling and I can see a difference in as little as one use depending on what I am cooking.

I use this steel: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hasmstrod.html
I also use a scrap of bare leather glued to a scrap of red oak to strop.

The honing steel does very well on my AEB-L but I might prefer stropping with something as thin as the laser. I prefer to strop my thinner knives because of any risk of chipping. Stropping seems a bit more gentle.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4297
Thinning knives is a part of sharpening to maintain the geometry of the knife. It needs to be done even with thin knives but to a lesser degree of coarse. Thinning is not known as a strong point of the EP. That is the relationship I was getting at.
There was some confusion on my part as to your reference to 10 sessions. I thought you meant sharpening sessions not prep sessions, so your knife may not need thinning at this point. I would try a strop or honing rod between sharpenings and see where that gets you. If you still have problems my next best guess would be that you may be leaving a burr or wire edge on the knife that is rolling after you start to use the knife.

Cedar, you type to fast.



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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:47 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 429
Location: ATL
Thanks guys. I used to wonder about the wire edge with this knife. I accept that the odds are the issue is with the mechanic more so than his tools. I'll look into a stropping regimen and see how that goes. Like I said, I love the knife I just can't keep it sharp.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:51 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 733
You should be able to drop the EP1000 completely out of that progression. Very close to the GS4K.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2416
Snipes - Thanks for sharing all that. I think stropping or some other maintenance component is the missing ingredient in really extending your time between sharpening sessions. You might also try stopping at the Shapton 4K next time to see if it makes any difference.

You could also use an Idahone fine ceramic hone if you use a really light touch with it - although it puts a toothier 1500-2K -ish edge finish on a knife. If you want a more refined edge look to a more traditional strop or even a higher grit sharpening stone.

IMO your edge retention seems pretty good - stropping will make a huge difference for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 429
Location: ATL
Just ordered this strop setup. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/haamstkit.html


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 2416
Awesome!! To start out, try spraying the balsa strop only and let dry. Do a 2-stage strop routine using the balsa with 1 micron compound first, then finishing on the bare horse butt strop. See how that works. You can always add the spray to the horse butt later for a different setup. If you start w/a good edge, it shouldn't take but a few strokes per side on each to finish the edge or bring it back. Once you can't bring it back by stropping, then it's time for another sharpening, which should be a while :-).

Let us know how it works for you. Everyone here loves feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Kono HD reactivity question
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 429
Location: ATL
I ran three knives across the strops this morning and there is something definitely going on with the Richmond laser. I didn't bother checking the edge prior to stropping it, though I did use it the prior evening to slice some skirt steak and mince a shallot(performed poorly). After stropping on the 1 micron loaded balsa I noticed it was grabbing some and the same on the horse butt. The edge feels like it has a pretty serious burr on it.
I then ran my Kono Fujiyama blue 240 and Moritaka AS 150 petty through the stops with excellent results and it really brought the edge back on the Moritaka. The Kono is already silly sharp.

With regard to the Richmond, is this a rolled edge, wire edge, something else? That burr was most certainly not there when I finished sharpening it last time. It's essentially dull. I did run it through cork originally and then tried again to remove the burr w/o luck.

Also, is 4-5 spray pumps of the 1 micron spray appropriate?


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