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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:00 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 600
The reasons for the gyuto recommendation, in my opinion, are two: 1) you currently use chef's knives, and a gyuto would be most similar and 2) many people prefer the extra length of the gyuto over a santoku. There are somewhat taller gyutos if that is a criterion that matters to you.


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:03 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 355
Location: Philly
If you have many knives a Santoku isn't bad if you need a shorter knife cause of space 1 day or if you are doing a task it is good at.

But a 240mm gyuto you can basically do anything you need in a kitchen. You can even cut loafs of bread or cake with it, if you had too. The idea is this is your all purpose it will perform almost 100% of your tasks of course some specialized knives will perform better a serrated knife a slicer a pairing knife but then you are buying 5 knifes and not just one.

If I had to get only 1 knife or I was going some where and only able to bring 1 knife it would a be 240mm gyuto. Plus almost no Santoku is taller than a 240mm gyuto. The profile might look taller but its an optical illusion. The 240mm are all taller. Remember most Santoku's are only 165-180mm long.

Carbon does have to be wiped, cleaned and dried properly. If its stainless clad its that much of big deal. I generally wipe any blade when I move on to my next ingredient anyway. I would go carbon over stainless.

But R-2 stainless is damn good and Hap40 semi stainless is damn good as well. So I would get them as well.



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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:27 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:18 pm
Posts: 11
thank you all!!

ok i finally clicked through everyone's links and recommendations and came down to these 4 knives. I'm still debating between the stainless vs stainless clad carbon vs just pure carbon? Did I even get that right? I feel like I need more clarification on those terms before making more decisions but the four that are being considered now are pasted below.

My apprehension for carbon and stainless clad carbon(?) is having to wipe after use. Isn't that really really inconvenient? Like if you are cutting meats/poultry etc? I wouldn't want to wipe it on a towel and get bacterial on it. I usually just throw it into the sink to wash later. So does everyone that own this just wash it immediately after use when dealing with meats?

Richmond GT
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkm24wa.html

Kohetsu Blue #2
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohetsublue1.html

Tojiro DP
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpchkn2 ... 65i6pQs2os

Tanaka Ginsan
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagigy24.html


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:19 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 am
Posts: 1341
Location: Raleigh, NC
Those are all good choices to break into Japanese knives. I'm not certain how soon the Tanaka will come back into stock, however; they sell out quickly and come back into stock rarely.

As far as your apprehension, it's invalid in some regards and very valid in others. You don't really have to wipe most knives every single cut; certainly not something like the Kohetsu B#2. You're looking at a window of a few minutes or even a quarter of an hour before rust can start to form. Allowing the blade to patina will help with this and will inhibit rust even longer.

That said, no, you cannot just use a carbon knife and leave it in the sink to be dealt with later. You'll come back to a pile of rust, be it on the edge or the entire blade. And on top of the real risk of personal injury (don't leave your knives in the sink is one of the top five restaurant rules) or damage to the knife, Japanese handles are frequently made of untreated wood that shouldn't be allowed to sit with refuse on it.

Getting into a habit of maintaining a knife in a timely fashion isn't as hard as people think. You're going to have to clean and dry the knife at some point anyway. It's safer and better for the knife to make that some point shortly after use.


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4569
Good post Lupus.

Good selection of entry level knives there but I have to say that the Tanaka Ginsan is the man among boys on that list. Hope it's back in stock soon. My second choice would be the Kohetsu blue#2.



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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:28 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am
Posts: 283
I dont find it that inconvenient to wipe as you go. Once its part of your muscle memory you'll find yourself doing it to all knives, carbon or not. In the kitchen, one of my biggest pet peeves is dirty knives, tools are meant to be respected. If you get the kohetsu ble 2 you will have yourself an unbelievable bargain on an amazing knife. Just keep a towel handy and every here and there just give it a little wipe. End of the day just clean it and dry it. Its that easy.


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:36 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 1:52 am
Posts: 355
Location: Philly
Home use I wash all my knives immediately after use. I would never want to see one of my knives in the kitchen sink, it would drive me absolutely mad. The big thing about carbon is you dont want to leave it wet with water or it will rust. And the acid in foods will react with carbon. It makes it easier if you have ever used carbon steel or cast iron skillets or woks at home. I was pretty use to that so a carbon knife was no big deal. But you really don't want to be putting any of your Japanese Knives in the sink even if its stainless. Sinks kill the edge plus its a big safety concern about getting cut.

The 4 knives you listed have really different profiles. I guess the T DP and Kohetsu B2 aren't that different. But the Tanaka is the tallest out of the 4 and is all curve while those 2 have a flat spot and more gentle curve. So it depends on which you like or what you want to try. The Richmond GT is version 2 which is better than the previous version but not real sure about the profile specifics in this version prob would need info from SteveG.

Tojiro DP and its VG-10 steel wouldn't be my first choice in stainless. That is just personal preference. I just don't think it can take an edge as good as say AEBL or R2. My opinion is biased I am kind of a VG10 hater to be honest.

Also noticed your link for the Kohetsu B2 was the 210 version not 240 version. Kohetsu B2 is a laser light and thin. So it will be the thinnest of the bunch you have listed and really light for a western handle which are usually heavier. Out of the 4 I would put my money on this knife to completely out perform the others.

If you wanted to try carbon I would go for the Kohetsu B2 if you didn't want to fool with carbon then the Tanaka Ginsan Gyuto 240mm if you like the profile. However it is out of stock. And if you want stainless in 240 you probably be near $200.

If it has to be stainless and has to be right now then I will throw 1 more into the ring Takamura Migaki R-2 Gyuto 210mm
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura.html

Even though it is a 210mm at that price it is too good to pass up if you want Stainless Steel that is in stock and under $200. The price of that knife is kind of sick.

Sorry for the long post



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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 600
+1 on everyone's care instructions.

I keep a towel around to wipe after cutting veggies. If I am cutting chicken I generally do that all at once and wash the knife right away. It does not take long to do and contains the mess. If I need to set the knife down while doing that I'll dry it with paper towels or a separate towel to prevent contamination.

Like others I would never leave a knife in the sink to wash for later, and I wash all my stainless knives right after use largely for that reason, so I find the difference slight in terms of care. You can get away with more with stainless, but it is all about setting good habits and after that you really don't notice.


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:21 pm 
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If you go with a 210mm Gyuto, I'll second the Takamura Migaki R-2. It's an amazing knife. The Takamura VG10 Nashiji: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tavgnagy21.html is a great performer as well. I just did some testing w/it last night. Not quite as thin as the R-2, but it's a very good knife - just noticed it's out of stock though.

Of those on your list, the Tojiro DP 240 is going to be heavier by quite a bit. I can also highly recommend the Kohetsu Blue #2 240 Gyuto. It's lighter and more nimble than the Tojiro DP. The Kohetsu Blue #2 210 is lighter, more nimble and thinner than the 240 version.

The Artifex GT 240 Gyuto is the same steel as the Fujiwara FKM. The latest 49mm high version of this knife has a great profile and is a good performer. The Kohetsu Blue #2 240 has much nicer core steel, but it's not as light, being a Yo (Western) handled knife.

From a pure performance and edge retention perspective the Kohetsu Blue #2 210 or the Takamura R-2 210 are the top dogs on this thread. The Tanaka Ginsan 240 is a really nice performer, but it's OOS and also needs some serious work OOTB sanding the spine and choil/neck to make it comfortable. The Tanaka Ginsan's are pretty rough OOTB - they put the time and effort in the knife grinds and not the finish work.


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 Post subject: Re: knife set for newbie?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:18 pm
Posts: 11
Thanks for the great info! I'll limit down the choices between the bottom 3 now. So this is surely a dumb question, but what's the difference between a 210 and 240mm for the Kohetsu Blue #2? and which would you guys recommend between those two? Of the 3 choices below, only the Kohetsu needs to be wiped dry right after use?

Also, when you all mention wiping these carbon knives..this is only if it is cutting wet things like veggies and meat, right? Not dry things like bread?


What would be your priority between these 3 knives?

1. Takamura Migaki R-2 Gyuto 210mm: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura.html
2. Tanaka Ginsan Gyuto 240mm: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagigy24.html
3. Kohetsu Blue #2 Gyuto 210mm: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohetsublue1.html


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