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Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:59 pm
I was looking into possibly getting either the kikuichi TKC gyuto or a kikuichi Swedish steel staingold gyuto. I was wondering if you happened to know the difference between the steels and whether or not the extra $100 price of the Swedish steel was worth looking into. The site offering the Swedish staingold says it is comprised of, "a core of premium alloy steel which includes Chromium 15%, Cobalt 1.5% and Molybdenum 1.0%. It is clad on both sides with SUS410 stainless steel and tempered to a rockwell hardness of 61 ". Lastly, I was also wondering how the sk steel in kikuichi's traditional carbon line compares in performance to say white #2.
Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:03 pm
They're very different knives. The TKC is semi stainless with about 7% chromium and it has a western handle. We tend to sell it to pros. The Swedish is a good knife but it's eerily similar to this Goko for way less money and you might want to consider it: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/goko.html
. We're almost out of them for good.
The steel in the carbon line is not as good as white #2 all things being equal (like heat treatment which is a big factor). It sharpens up really well and it holds an edge but not as well as good white #2 knives I've used.
Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:58 pm
To be perfectly honest, the composition you outlined for Staingold steel doesn't make sense to me.
It lists 15% chromium, which I don't know of any Swedish steel that has that much.
VG10 does have that much chromium though, but it's not a Swedish steel. AEBL/13C26 have 13%
Those are steels I see Kikuichi use regularly.
All that said, and having never used them that I'm recalling, I can only provide a "Best Guess" as it may be.
Pure performance, the TKC will win if the knife uses VG10. If it uses AEB-L, it could potentially get sharper than the steel in the TKC and be potentially easier to sharpen. Neither by anything more than a very fine hair. If it uses some other steel I'm not familiar with, I've no CLUE.
Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:40 pm
TKC will be a little thicker on the spine than a Nickel Swede. TKC will also be heavier. Nickel Swede is prettier. Kikuichi generally has excellent F+F.
I, like Adam, haven't really been able to nail down what steel is in the Nickel Sweden. CKTG list AEB-L, I think this is the same as 13c26, which is what Kikuichi says it is. I would say pretty certainly that is not VG-10 though.
The TKC has minor reactivity in the blade, The Swede is completely stainless.
Kikuichi - rosewood handle and horn + chestnut and resin(rough up F+F) = Goko damascus
The Elite Carbon line uses SK tool steel. Full carbon reactivity, easy to sharpen. As easy in my experience as W#1.
Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:50 pm
The Kikuichi StainGold Warikomi Grade is VG10 gold and SUS410 stainless steel. The TKC with it's semi-stainless is going to outperform the VG-10 gold significantly.
Sat May 31, 2014 10:08 am
The StainGold isn't the same as the Gold Warikoma and almost sure it does not use VG-10. Looks like the big difference between the TKC and StainGold is that the StainGold is clad while the TKC is mono. I haven't played with enough high end knives (or even either of these two for that matter) to have an informed opinion about the performance difference between a clad blade and a mono, but would also love to hear someone's view on these two blades who has tried them both
Sat May 31, 2014 1:59 pm
You might not be sure but I am. StainGold is VG10.
Sat May 31, 2014 2:03 pm
Yeah, you're right. Looked into the composition description on the Swedish StainGold posted on a vendor's description and it is identical to VG10.
Sat May 31, 2014 2:44 pm
This is interesting. I was at Williams-Sonama a few years ago and compared the warikomi damascus and the gold series side-by-side. At the time, they did NOT list the gold series as VG-10 (now they do)—in fact, this was one of the primary differences between the two lines. Oddly, the two knives were remarkably different in feel on the board, despite looking similar and having very similar weights and thinness. I found myself strongly preferring the gold series. Point is, they felt like two significantly different knives.
If the gold series now uses VG-10, I'm not sure what the difference is besides the damascus cladding. This would be a shame, since the older series appeared to use something closer to AEB-L, much like the Wa-handled Damascus Swedish series that Mark carries (which, unlike the more expensive western-handled version, appears to NOT use VG-10). I remain confused. I wonder if perhaps they changed the steel in the last few years for some of these lines, and not for others.
Sorry if this is confusing. My point is more that I'm confused, and I wonder some of the information being used here is either out-of-date, or applies to new or old lines. I realize that some of you are confident about the information from specific sources. I wonder if anyone knows if/when the gold series changed, or if there is actually a difference between the gold series and the "StainGold" series that I am missing.
I'll also add that some people seem to think Kikuichi clad knives have a particular – and often very good and stiff – board feel despite their remarkable thinness at the spine. For those of you who have used both, I wonder if this is something to consider when comparing to the TKC. My sense is that, despite being thinner, the heat-treat on the Warikomi series (plural) may actually make these thinner knives feel stiffer and more nimble, especially for western-handled versions. Just a thought to prompt discussion.
Sat May 31, 2014 3:59 pm
There does seem to be a difference from the Gold Warikomi series and the StainGold, but as of now not sure what it is
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