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Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:07 pm

Just keep posting information please. We love you both.

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:22 pm

Lies! :mrgreen:

Adam knows I'm just kidding.... I think...

As far as this steel debate goes, we always end up telling people to buy knives based on profile and thinness rather than steel. Just because a Yamashin has White #1 doesn't mean it will outperform a Masakage Yuki with White #2..... totally different grinds, weights, and shapes. The Masakage will blow it out of the water.

Now, I know that we are all looking for the "ringer" out there, something that performs outside of its "price-range", so to speak. Thankfully, I can say that MOST of the knives on the website are priced accordingly to performance and finish, but there are a couple of exceptions here and there. Most of the time you will get a newer line at a cheaper price before it builds a reputation. Kanehiro was a perfect example of this. Price doesn't always reflect performance, and I think Misono UX10 is the prime example of that. While a UX10 is a good knife, it's out of its league now that the price jumped up so much. But then again, if you have to have that profile, then price will be of no object to you.

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Shoot, you were kidding? Better turn the car around, was headed south to kick your butt!! :)

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:06 pm

But I thought Shaun said the term is not steel snob, it's "sommelier of cutlery". :mrgreen:

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:59 pm

I love it.. every time you guys respond I have more and more questions... what is a poly board or an end grain board... what are their applications? Sorry for the rookie questions... but I know there are hundreds of members out there who are probably wondering the same thing..

You guys would just laugh at how little they teach about knife sharpening and steels in culinary school... They just say buy a Wustof or Henckels set and then they teach the worst sharpening technique possible on a three part oil stone set.

Cutlery is the most important tool for a cook... why don't they spend more time on it... I think it is because they just don't know any better...

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:31 pm

Oh it's okay, I'm not sure Adam's little hatchback would make it down here anyway. Meh, still better than my Civic I suppose.... ;)

(pray for me)

and about the poly boards:

Polyurethane cutting boards, aka, the big ugly plastic things you use all the time in kitchens from here to Tim-buck-two. :D Color coded usually, and slightly textured, although there are some smooth ones (which I recon would be better on edges a little bit). The toughness of the plastic tends to kill refined edges rather fast. A 2k edge on VG-10 will last you all shift on poly, whereas an 8k edge will die rather fast. It just makes the steel roll over like crazy. I guess this is why some people prefer to use a softer steel and beat the daylights out of it with a steel, to "tooth" that edge up. (and destroy the knife in the process)

Sidenote: Just because 2k outlasts 8k on poly, that doesn't mean going coarser than 2k will give you more edge life. I actually find that a 500 grit edge doesn't last as long on a rough board because you then start to suffer from a type of carbide fallout. The steel simply can't support the big nasty teeth, and they all rip out. 1k to 2k just seems to be that sweet spot for poly, and you can sometimes get away with 4k. I'm talking, these edges last with no stropping during the shift, that's what I mean by edge life.... no steeling, no nothing, just straight edge life from stone.

End Grain cutting boards are the most desirable. There is 'side grain' and 'end grain' when it comes to wood. They look like what they sound like: The side grain has a long grain pattern that extends across the entire cutting board. End grain is usually a collection of little blocks, as you are cutting cross-sections, and then placing them back together. There is a big difference in edge life when it comes to side grain versus end grain. End grain is much softer on the edge, and if you've never used one you'll love how long your blade stays sharp on one. Even refined edges last on end grain maple boards.

Now side grain: Mostly going to be a bamboo board (already hard stuff) and side grain makes it even tougher. Side grain bamboo sucks, I'll say it like it is. End Grain bamboo is pretty good stuff though. Not as good as maple, but still better than poly. I'm not sure if side grain is worse than poly though.. that's a tossup. :ugeek:

Re: Is it possible

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:41 pm

Any more questions? I'm glad someone asked to make this a sticky, I'm having fun trying to share the little bit that I do know with you guys. :)

Re: Is it possible

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:51 am

Out of this thread, I soaked in that its not worth taking most vg-10 blades past 2k grit level. Lets assume that the average American restaurant chef is working at a station with a poly board about 10" wide that sits comfortably in front of the hotel pan size wells.

How does one choose to stop, besides experience? I really enjoy having a mirror finish once every few weeks, but I do see how it breaks down quickly, no matter whatt I do.

Re: Is it possible

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:01 am

Experience is the only indicator of when to stop.

I could use a knife totally differently than you and my experience could be totally different than yours with the exact same knife sharpened at the exact same angles, with the exact same stones, to the exact same edge profile.

Experience is the only true indicator.

We discuss a lot of things here....and provide our experiences....but when we start getting really EXACT with things, we should all be careful about making finite statements. :) I try not to as best I can because of this. Some things are finite....white steel takes a better edge than blue....others things simply can't be....like "Does AEB-L edge last longer than white steel edge?". I really feel like I know the answer, but can I prove it? Is it true in all circumstances?

Re: Is it possible

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:26 am

You can take VG-10 past 2k, just don't do it on a poly board if you aren't planning on honing your knife multiple times during the shift, that's all. :D
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