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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 am
Posts: 371
I do agree the 500 grit GS edge does cut surprisingly well and there are applications where it works the best for me, but I don't know if I'm ready to agree that kind of edge works better across the entire spectrum of cutting tasks. I have noticed the coarser the edge the sooner it seems to dull(might be in my head?).

I don't own a Yoshikane, though. What kind of steal is it?


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:38 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
SLD steel by Hitachi.

Very similar to D2 with slightly more carbon content than the SKD version.

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91007

Actually I find it to last longer as the "micro teeth" remain more prominent to do the job....just love the bite it has.

:)



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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:51 am 
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If I remember correctly D2 has a lot of large primary carbides. Possibly why it is responding so well with a coarser finish?


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:34 pm
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Quote: Actually I find it to last longer as the "micro teeth" remain more prominent to do the job....just love the bite it has.



I have a Benchmade pocket knife I bought a few years ago that I use for work and at home. It gets a lot of use, from cutting string to opening up bags of material and cutting up boxes and even opening my mail. :lol:

When I first got it it came with what I would describe as a belt sander edge to it. Not really course but not really fine either. The bevel was even all the way up and down on both sides. It really was a nice edge.

I used it for about 2 months before I finally put it to my stones. What I found was the factory edge lasted much longer and cut better than the edge that I put on it. I went to 5k on the stones. Now when I say cut better I mean cut better for a longer period of time. It seems the more refined edge performed excellent but would only last half as long. Its 154Cm steel and will take a screaming edge. The finished edge is mirror after I finish sharpening.

Its actually time to sharpen it again, this time I'm going to stop at 1k and see what happens. I read somewhere that a toothier edge will last longer than a refined edge will, and will cut most things better and faster. From my experience that seems to be true.

Maybe some others on here can experiment with different refinements on different knives and see what they come up with. Maybe going past 1k or 2k isn't necessary. Maybe the knifefanatic can do some experiments and post a few videos.

Dave.


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Fine vs coarse in longevity is a never ending debate.

Ankerson over on Spyderco forums believes in coarser edges lasting longer and has proven this with many cutting tests.

I have tried very high, high, medium & course edges and IMHO coarse lasts longer for better cutting.....kinda makes sense as the micro teeth are still there even after loosing the initial scary sharpness.

But I guess the proof is in the eating....try it yourself and see.....

:)



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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Many, many people believe a coarse ground edge lasts longer than a finely ground one.

One of those people is Devin Thomas, who knows more about knife steel than anyone I've ever talked to by a factor of a LOT. :)



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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:58 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
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I did some CATRA testing a few years back and the dominate factor was edge angle followed by hardness. In the tests the Fine edge had a more steady decline in sharpness while the Coarse edge had a higher initial cut number and more consistent number of cuts before going dull. Imagine it more like a lithium battery that suddenly goes dead.

Overall the difference in total cuts between Coarse and Fine was 3%.


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 pm
Posts: 104
Very interesting Jason.

This still brings up some questions for me. How dull are we talking about? 250, 600, 800?

I imagine that a finer edge may only need a light hone to be back to decent shape, where honing the coarse edge would make little difference. Of course, personal preference and what you are using it for play a huge difference. I feel like a coarse edge on a pocket knife is totally acceptable. I will be cutting into various materials. I know a pocket knife is a tool and is meant to be in the field. A kitchen knife is a more specialized tool and going to be used much differently. That edge will have a huge difference depending on your cutting style even.

Like you also said, the steel makes a big difference too, which is something I have been thinking about lately that may be a topic for another thread.


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 pm
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Not sure how to edit posts still..

Meant to also ask "How dull are we talking about? How coarse of an edge? 250, 600, 800? "


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 Post subject: Re: How high is too high for kitchen knives?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:49 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
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The stones used were a DMT Coarse 320 mesh and DMT EEF 8000 mesh.


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