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Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:04 pm

Thank you so much Knife Fanatic and SteveG, these past two posts have finally cleared my head enough to narrow down my decisions. I was focusing too much on the hype and the finish of Takeda and didn't even stop to think about the profile until I looked at the Sasanoha which made me realize how much I love the shape of the Konosuke. Now I just gotta decide which one I am gonna by and which clad or carbon steel petty I am going to buy, more than likely the Masakage. Sorry to dilly dally so much, this is just a lot if money and I feel like these will be some of if not the best knives I ever own or use. Thanks so much again guys!!!

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:32 am

Jwesly1 wrote: Basically, recommend me a $300 to $400 gyuto that you love, a small utility type knife, and a higher grit stone that that will put a real fine edge on them.

The knives I already had so I guess you're asking about a stone. Suehiro Rika 5k... done.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 am

Jwesly - You welcome...and don't be in a hurry. There's no rush. Take your time, assess your options (which you're doing), and be comfortable in your choices when you pull the trigger.

Just a couple more thoughts on the petty. Decide whether you want a petty with more height, which will handle more like a mini-gyuto - or a petty that is shorter in height and more streamlined. The Masakage pettys will be taller and like mini-gyutos. The Kono HD petty and something like a Moritaka Supreme 130 or 150 petty will be shorter. These two types handle a bit differently.

If you're considering the Masakage Shimo petty, also consider the Kanehiro Ginsan 150mm petty: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kagipe15.html. Melampus really likes this knife, which says a lot by itself, but it's also all stainless.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:09 am

Jw, you're in a good position to be making this choice! Enjoy it.

There seem to be generally positive sentiments about Kono HD and Takedas. Some people love how tall the regular Takeda gyutos are. Some people find them to be too flat. I don't see how either could be a bad choice. I have a Kono Funi and love it.

Masakages are newer, so there are fewer comments about them, but most of the comments are positive. I have a Masakage Koishi gyuto, which I also love. I have far less knife experience (and skills) than many folks here, so I'm hesitant to present my impressions. The Koishi line is a bit more expensive, very similar in price (and AS steel) to the Takeda, though the cladding and texture are certainly different.

I know Melampus is also a fan of the Kanehiro AS knives, which haven't been mentioned here, but might be worth considering (though the 240 is currently out of stock).

Seems like you are well on your way to allocating your budget and you've narrowed it down to several good options. Keeping the gyuto a priority seems like a sound choice.

You earlier mentioned 1-2 stones, but more recently asked about a fine stone rec. Do you already have a medium (1k or 1200ish) stone?

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:52 pm

Jwesly1 wrote: "As far as... stones go I already have... a nubatama ume 1k and a chosera 3k."

JW <> As Steve, states a 150 petty is not a 150 petty is not a 150 petty. There are dramatically different profiles in all knife types... pettys are no different. Heed his warning, and think about what you like/want. A small multi purpose do-it-all Gyuto-styled manual food processor kinda knife... or basically a steak knife. I hate to be so straight forward, but I'm super opinionated after working with knives professionally for over two decades. My experience doesn't equate to right or wrong, but it does give me a lot of data to draw upon therefore developing strong opinions after handling a lot of different knives. I'm going to digress here, BUT people like Shaun (KnifeFanatic), AaronGibson (I'm pretty sure) have handled almost any worthy knife on the CKTG menu, and they both use knives professionally... listen when they speak. Tim, TAZ, has handled massive amounts of knives. Rich, Boar-d-Laze, is a walking phucking encyclopedia with probably twice as many years as me ITK. And there are many more in the mix here, I'm not discounting anyone by creating a short-list; those are just the most present.

Before my mind deviated, I was talking about Steve's point. Short pettys like my Konosuke http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohdwa151.html are effectively useless to me... in a broad petty type function, that is. Their function is limited. It's analogous to the Nakiri/Gyuto conversation. Argue all you want, but you can do anything with a Gyuto that you can with a Nakiri; the converse is just not true. I like my Kono120 for things like playing with fruit or cleaning flesh to an extent, but its not versatile enough to be in my daily kit. It's too long to pare, too delicate to bone, too short to mince... its a toy, to me. A tall petty like the Tanaka Sekiso 150 or a Kanehiro 150 is a more versatile tool, and I've said enough on that. Yes, I expound in quasi-absolutes, but like I said... I'm opinionated.

I'm going to add in here, for whatever reason, my daily spread is typically a 250 KS or 270 laser, a 150 petty, and a 95 paring. Yes, I have slicers, and breads, and boners, and blah-blah-blah... but the functional versatility in which is encompassed with the above spread is hard to beat.

Furthermore, I do LOVE the Kanehiros, but I refrained from suggesting them as a Gyuto selection because I always go back to your first thread... void of all the following rhetoric. You were looking at a "high-dollar" Gyuto with a Takeda in mind. If I'm suggesting one Gyuto, odds are stacked hard against it being a clad knife... especially, in a residence! I suggested the Kanehiro G3 as I typically use a petty in demanding quick paced scenarios that don't often allow the time required for carbon care (1), I have never handled a knife with a more perfect ratio of handle to blade size (2), and their G3 impresses me time and time again (3).

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:48 pm

I'm curious -- how tall is the Kanehiro petty that you like?

I'm trying to get a picture of it in my mind compared to the two that I own now (a carbon Masamoto and a Kamata house-brand Cowry-X piece). I definitely understand the "toy" aspect of the short-profile, short-length petty, especially after adding a 210 Konosuke petty, and am looking for more utility in the small end of the range.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:53 pm

You guys are blowing my mind right now, you all have made so many good points that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around all of them. I am sorry to stretch this thread out so long but I am learning so much. In short, I am not sure if I mentioned I am a prep cook and have my own knives that I work with. My favorite of them all was a Kikuichi TKC recommended by Adam Marr who is another member in the long line that you have listed above that I have learned to respect very much. This knife made me realize it is all about the steel and with my new found love for lighter weight, thinner profile, japanese style knives, and the fact that I am moving into a new house with a decent chunk of money I was thinking a few traditional knives that would only be used by me and me alone and wiped with a god damn diaper would be an enjoyable experience. CKTG has so many different knives I am just trying to poll the members that I respect in this small tight niche community to see what I should really buy and so far you guys are giving me that and then some. Finally, I would like to state that as far as the petty goes I am looking for a mini gyuto style utility knife possibly with a more delicate steel like a clad or carbon one that is affordable but would at the same time be step above something I culd afford in a larger knife, make sense? Either way, with all the knowledge in this thread I am sure I could come up with something but if you guys are enjoying the banter keep it coming.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:54 pm

JEFF <>My warikomi 150 Kanehiro G3 just measured 1 & 5/16"... converts to 33.33mm

JW <> You mentioned, "...with a more delicate steel than a clad..."

A clad knife is, in a broad sense, actually less delicate as it is sandwiched between a durable soft steel exterior... aka Jigane.

It seems like you want a different 150 petty reco. I'll stick w/my Kanehiro reco, but instead of a stainless G3 core, it comes in a blue super carbon core, as well. I can get my Kanehiro AS knives, for whatever reason, sharper than any other of my knives... my Carter white#1 actually ties them, or rather, I can tie myself when sharpening it. For monosteel carbon, take a look at the Masakage Shimo in shirogami or Tanaka Sekiso in Aogami.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:30 am

if i had to spend big money on a knife, i wouldn't get a clad knife. i agree with BDL when he says that clad knives feel muted. they feel weird. compare to monosteel construction knives, they're just odd feeling.

but that's just me.

Re: High dollar knife - what would you get

Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:42 am

JWesly - a Konosuke 240 HD and any of the pettys that Melampus just mentioned would be an insanely awesome combination! Please let us know what you decide to get and also check back in with your feedback once you use them.
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