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 Post subject: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
Hi

Chasing recommendations for several types of knives. I can see myself using a Gyuto most of the time so I have dismissed the idea of Nakiri for veggies/prep. I have heard good things about the Richmond Laser Super and the Konosuke HDs.

I use a cleaver for bones and frozen meat so I like it heavy. And possibly top it off with a Deba for fish and deboning as I am starting to get into this.

I am wondering if people generally use smaller knives for any work (I prefer larger ones for most prep work). I figured these knives would be most useful to me, rather than getting a 7 knife set that I hardly utilise.

Here's some extra info:

1. Are you right handed? YES
2. What type of knife are you interested in (gyuto, nakiri etc..) Gyuto, Cleaver, Deba
3. What size knife are you looking for? 240mm Gyuto or possibly larger?, Long and heavy cleaver (saw a Wusthof 9" cleaver once but will take suggestions), and whatever sized Deba is suggested
4. Do you prefer carbon or stainless steel? Whichever is preferred by others
5. Do you prefer a western handle or a Japanese handle? I think Japanese/octagon ones are better?
6. How much did you want to spend? <$350 per knife
7. Do you know how to sharpen? Only a bit with straight razors but not really with kitchen knives. I would like to get tips and recommendations on products (i.e. whetstones)?

While I am it - what should I look for in boards for Gyuto and Cleaver that will not damage/dull the blade prematurely? I am most definitely a novice here and appreciate the time and help from CKTG patrons.


Cheers
Nik


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 47
For hacking up bones and frozen meat this cleaver is what you want
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckbonechopper.html

As for your gyuto, that one is going to take quite a bit more shopping around and questioning. Both the konosuke and the richmond laser are great knives, however they are lasers which means you should have another gyuto to use on the really tough jobs. A cleaver or deba could be used for things like squash I guess, but if I was only going to have one gyuto in my arsenal it would probably be something more substantial than a laser style knife. Instead of the richmond laser I would take a look at the richmond addict or ultimatum. Im rather partial to the shape of the ultimatum so that would be my initial suggestion.


As to the deba, Ill leave you on your own for that one. I feel its a knife many people get and it winds up never being used or never being used the way it was intended. I would do some research and make sure I wanted to buy a deba before I took the plunge. Its a highly specialized knife.



As for small knives, they absolutely see a lo of use in all the kitchens I have been in. Something like the artifex 150 would be a good semi budget small knife. I recommend going stainless on the petty if its your only small knife so that you can use it on citrus and not worry about it reacting/rusting
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar15pe.html


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
Hey Twyst

Thanks for reply. Yes I think I may have been over-reaching on the Deba front - you may be right in saying that it won't find much use when it comes into my collection. And collecting is one thing I do not intend to do (although there are many beautiful knives out there and I could easily convince myself into purchasing them). I don't think I will spend more time condsidering the Deba then.

As for the Gyuto I did consider the Ultimatum but forgot to mention the knife. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riul.html

I assume the custom handle sets the price apart from this one: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riul270gyhds.html . I am guessing its effectively the same knife for a lower price? Any reason to consider the M390 Steel: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riulm3st.html ?


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:19 am
Posts: 45
There are very few things that give me as much visceral joy as destroying chicken carcasses with the bone chopper; great price, great recommendation.

As for fish, what kind do you usually find yourself breaking down? For most small fish I find a 150mm petty is much more suited to the task than a deba, like twyst said the deba is a very specialized knife.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:44 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
Hey Vectron. Cheers for the reply. Yeh mostly small fish and on the odd occasion something larger.

And with regards to the chopper, it's always a nice feeling having a large chunk of metal in the hand with a relatively sharp edge that just chews through bone - yep...always manages to bring a smile to my face.. Btw that CCK bone choppper seems like pretty good value. Pity it's out of stock atm. Guess I have to wait then.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:21 pm 
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With a $350/knife budget, the gyuto recommendations are going to be varied it'll be funny. :)

There are a ton of great, great knives within that budget...it more matters what you're after.

You mention the Richmond Laser's....they're great.

The Masamoto KS is within that range and a gold standard.

Some of the Fujiyama Konosuke's are within that budget....can't get much better than those.

The Kikuichi TKC is a great knife.

Many of the other Konosuke gyuto's fit within that budget.

Goko, Takeda, Pierre Mid-Tech, etc., etc., etc.

For bone busting, get one of the CCK bone knives:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckbonechopper.html

For a deba, the normal starting length is 180mm, and the Kaneshige's are very nice:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kabl2de18.html

Again, though, you have a huge budget for each knife....there are a ton of other choices.

Good luck on your hunt and let us know if you have any questions.



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:50 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
Perhaps I should clarify further since I have more knowledge on the subject and based on what I am hearing. I would be willing to spend 350-400 for a great quality Gyuto that will last me a lifetime or until I can afford others. I probably wouldn't consider the same budget for the cleaver or the Deba (one knife which I am still contemplating and possibly considering a petty knife instead).

Unfortunately, I myself am not sure what Gyuto I'm after. Something to use for almost every slicing and most chopping needs. Something that won't need consistent sharpening (but I do want to maintain it well). Something that is relatively thin behind the edge. Something with an edge that will last a bit longer. Is there a steel/material that is preferred amongst you guys here on the forum?

Also, do you guys think there are diminishing returns the more you spend. I can easily see myself spending $300-400 on a Gyuto and easily justify the purchase by using it everyday and I also understand that knives are very subjective also. But I thought I might ask anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Yes, there certainly can be diminishing returns. In some instances, knives cost more because they're better made, or hand made, or prettier, or.....these knives do not cut better than their less expensive counterparts.

The knives I listed are all in that sweet spot that I like so much. All will have great geometry, very good steels, at least good F&F....all will last a home cook the better part (or all) of their adult lives with normal home use. All the ones I listed (I've never actually seen the Pierre knife though....I just threw it in there) are thin behind the edge.

Your best bet, if you have no idea what you're doing (and that's 100% fine, none of us did when we got started) is to buy a Fujiwara carbon or stainless:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara-knives.html

Use it for a month....then let us know what you like, don't like, etc. It may be all the knife you ever need.

If you want to dive head first, the Richmond Laser, Masamoto KS, or basically anything from Konosuke will all be great, great knives.



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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 47
Adam Marr wrote:

If you want to dive head first, the Richmond Laser, Masamoto KS, or basically anything from Konosuke will all be great, great knives.












Masamoto KS was my first J knife and it's still my favorite to this day! Have a few other gyutos now, but the KS is by far my favorite.


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 Post subject: Re: Gyuto, Cleaver and Butter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:02 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm
Posts: 16
So which Masamoto KS are we talking about? The white steel or the Aogami super steel?


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