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 Post subject: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7897
Location: Madison Wisconsin
I would like to talk with someone on the merits of different types of
stone and the differences within manufacturers.

My wife has started me on new set of quality Miyabi Artisan SG2 knives.
I have gotten one on the Miyabi two wheel knife honers but I know that
is not the ultimate for keeping a quality edge on good kitchen knives.

Who would you recommend that I talk with, especially about the different
products that you carry?

I got your website from my brother in law, who is a chef.

VR,
Ed



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Mark Richmond
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 Post subject: Re: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm
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Hey Ed,

Thanks for the questions, glad you put your faith in us to steer you right. It sounds as though you realize the days of the pull-through sharpener are all but dying for you (or so it seems) and it's time to make the plunge into REAL sharpening. :mrgreen:

Along with some simple instructions, via video and this forum, and a good coarse grit stone, you will be on your way to becoming the best knife sharpener your friends know. (Unless your friends are my friends) ;)

So, as always I recommend a diamond plate for extremely rough work and stone flattening, a good coarse stone for bevel setting and scratch removal, and a good 1,000 grit stone to clean things up and get it sharp. Bringing a knife up to the 1k (1,000 grit) mark is pretty much a "benchmark" for us sharpening guys. This is the first level where we consider the knife as a "factory edge" or we simply consider 1k to be sharp. Anything less refined is a little too toothy in my opinion, and creates too much drag while slicing, resulting in a loss of performance.

Also, getting a knife to that 1k level will be at least as sharp as the pull-through you currently use, and you can always use your pull-through to maintain the edge, although I really recommend against that since it keeps screwing up the angle you will be putting by hand.

Some great solutions have already been thought out as sharpening sets by Mark, but they don't include a diamond plate for flattening and slurry generation, something that you will want IMO.

Please feel free to shoot us more questions, I want to get you on your way to sharpening bliss. :D



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:44 pm
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Thanks Shaun:
What I would like to get is some guidance between natural water stones (Nubatama+Nubatama Bamboo stones), ceramic soaking water stones and splash and go: and any other nuances in different products.

And what advantage water has over oil & visa versa.

I am also on a limited budget


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:32 pm 
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Well, I'll clear up the water/oil stone thing real fast...... don't worry about oil stones, waste of time, too much mess, no benefit that I'm aware of. :)

Ceramic soaking stones.... only happens on a lower grit ceramic stone, as well as most low grit water stones. The porous quality of coarse particles causes mini cracks for water to seep into. Other than that, splash and go is typically present on all higher grit stones, and about half of all other grits. Splash and go in not necessarily any better than soakers, so take that on a case by case basis, or just ask one of us.

I'm going to cut out and let someone else answer some questions before I sell another set of Shaptons, not that that's a bad thing.... hehe :D



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Shaun Fernandez

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Oil stones wear a lot slower than waterstones. The give is that they sharpen much more slowly. Since waterstones break down a lot quicker than oil stones, there is always fresh grit there to grind metal....equals faster metal removal.

The Nubatama stones are not "natural water stones". Without checking, they may use some natural stone grit, but they're manufactured none-the-less. True "natural water stones" are cut from a mine. This is a very deep rabbit hole.....my only parting advice is never buy a natural Japanese water stone from anyone but the most knowledgeable individuals. You're as liable to end up with a door stop as a good stone.

Splash and Go stone's refers to the subset of stones that can literally be splashed with water and then used.

Technically, any stone can be used this way, but others perform much better in this manner. The Shapton's (all of them) are a good example of these types of stones.

Most other stones should be soaked for some period of time before being used. Throw them in a tub of water....if they bubble, let them stop before using them. Kind of a general rule that isn't always true. :)

As Shaun said, a lot of high grit stone's are splash and go....but some that can be used like this still benefit from some soaking. However, each user can use a said stone differently as well.



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 Post subject: Re: Good stones for my Miyabi
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:12 am 
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I prefer oil stones to water stones for very tough alloys. I use a four stone kit consisting of a Norton Coarse India, Norton Fine India, Hall's Soft Arkansas and Hall's Surgical Black Arkansas stones, for most European blades. An Arkansas edge is particularly long lasting for tough knives like Sabatiers, Wusthofs, Henckels, etc.

Water stones are faster and better for the stronger alloys typical of Japanese knives and western knives using modern steels, like Richmonds, as well as may customs and semi-customs.

Oil stones do not require flattening, but do require cleaning. The name "oil stones" is something of a misnomer because -- by and large -- they do not require honing oil. The trend with skilled sharpeners is to use them dry, with water, or with soapy water. The idea behind using any liquid at all is to float away the swarf and prevent the stones from loading up. However, dry stones work faster and dishwashers do such an effective job of cleaning old, dry swarf from the stone that keeping them clean is enough.

A set of three water stones is your best bet for your Miyabis. If you can afford to go "soup to nuts," and want to buy everything you'll need for years with one purchase, your best bet is the CKtG eight piece set. But CKtG's Edge Pro Apex "Essential Set" might be an even better choice.

Unless you have a very strong interest in learning to freehand on bench stones, you should very seriously consider the Edge Pro.

It takes most beginners about 12 - 20 hours before they can freehand sharpen consistently well enough that they can be confident they'll actually get a sharp edge in a reasonable amount of time every time they go to the stones. The same level of competence takes about two hours with an Edge Pro, less if you're reasonably ambidextrous. I've been sharpening freehand for (probably) a lot longer than you've been on this planet, and there's very little I can do freehand I can't do just as well on an Edge Pro.

BDL


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