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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:39 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:16 am
Posts: 95
I had a similar concern about one month ago. And sure enough my last sharpening took the edge past the cladding. It has not been a problem. This knife is a Richmond AS 240 gyuto. A you can see I have sharpened past the cladding in a few spots. It did not cause issues when sharpening. Being as this particular knife is very thin behind the edge, I have not needed to thin the edge yet. ( I think when that time comes, I will retire her, and buy a new model.)

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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:34 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 134
toddnmd wrote:Certainly doable. Since it's the secondary bevel (not the actual cutting edge), it's also more forgiving. Before you sharpen the edge, reduce the angle of the blade on the stone (making it flatter to the stone). The contact should be on the part of the blade behind the edge, not on the actual edge. If you've sharpened a lot, but haven't thinned it for a while, you might have to remove a good bit of metal (which will take off some of the cladding as well as thin behind the edge, which will result in better performance). Once you have done the thinning and restored the knife to its original geometry (or somewhat close to it), you can just do a little thinning each time you sharpen, before you sharpen the primary edge


Thanks for the explanation Todd. I just bought this knife around Christmas, so its only been fully sharpened once with a couple of touch-ups. I dont free hand, I use an Edge Pro, so I dont know if that makes it harder or not. In any case, it sounds like a process that one doesn't become good at right away. I can see it going from bad to worse if Im not careful. Im not sure this is the knife I want to experiment with. Kind of a bummer since the knife came like this. Lesson learned; next time I order a clad knife, request an adequate carbon bevel. Looks like Im in the same boat as NorCal for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:39 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 258
norcal- why would you want to retire a perfectly good knife. thinning is a natural part of the sharpening and maitainance of any knife. it should be done on a semi regular basis to keep the blade geometry preforming the way it was intended. by all means buy some more toys ! but don't put your baby to rest just cuz shes gotten a bit chubby! we have to take care of the tools we know and love if we want them to take care of us.
just decreasing your angle by 5 or so degrees will alow you to thin behind the edge first and then proceed with business as usual! :) happy cutting all


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:44 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 pm
Posts: 258
los altos- there is no reason to worry about doing anything wrong. worst case scenario you are gonna scratch up your knife a bit. I assume since your not a freehander (yet?) you are not used to seeing scratchs on your blades. well Im not sure there is any one out there that is a freehand sharpener that didn't cause a few blemishes on there first few or more attempts (except maybe some of the real pros out hear - I have a jmbullman sharpened m390 artifex that is absolutely perfect from heel to tip)
imo you should give it a try its a natural part of knife wear that has to be dealt with one way or another. we cant learn till we make mistakes


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:13 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:16 am
Posts: 95
cheffiec<> Think I had the wrong idea of what thinning means. I am pretty decent at free handing and I just kinda taught myself through a lot of practice. I have scratched up half a dozen knives. I use my knives a lot at work. I always thought thinning was to take metal off the whole side of the knife. I never really understood how people did it. So thinning is sort of like resenting the bevel?



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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:50 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:05 am
Posts: 81
Thinning the whole knife and thinning behind the edge are pretty different. Thinning behind the edge involves cutting away the "shoulder" of the bevel and bringing that area down to an appropriate thickness. It's like resetting the bevel except you're not going all the way down to the edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:02 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 210
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twP_05UEHIM

I found this video very helpful for thinning. He is removing steel far up the side of the blade, but you don't have to be this extensive. You can raise up your angle over what he shows, but below where you normally sharpen and you will be thinning just behind the edge, just knocking down the shoulders of the edge bevel. Same technique as he shows, just raise the angle a bit if you want. Then go back and sharpen the edge at your normal angle. I have done it just like he does, and also raised up a little bit. It is much faster raised up a little bit, and still effective both for thinning out the edge and for removing cladding to expose the core steel. The angle he shows is more in an effort to maintain the original geometry of the knife, but is a bit more labor intensive, and will require you to refinish the blade if you care about it being scuffed up.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 134
I guess I didn't understand the whole thinning progress either. I thought I was going to have to thin along the whole length of the knife, and that's what intimidated me. I think I should be able to handle a little spot reduction as was demonstrated in that YouTube video.

Thanks cheffiec and emoclaus for the explication, and LucBrasi for finding that video!


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: CT
Thinning is along the whole edge, he just broke it down into smaller segments to demo it.


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 Post subject: Re: Clad knife, what happens when carbon edge is gone?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 4013
Location: Kentucky
If your just going to retire the knife anyway, why not use it to learn to thin. If your successful you will extend it's life and learn something along the way.



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