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Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:38 pm
Hello guys I am here to ask for your help to choose a 210mm CARBON gyuto.
Ok, so why a 21 if I can get a 24 or 27? The answer is that I already have a 27cm Konosuke HH, which I use at school, and this one is to be my home baby. Working area is a problem at home, so this is why a 21 and not a 24. Also, I want to try carbon on big knifes (I already have a cabon petty) and at home work is less intense, making easier to take the extra care carbon require.
Answering Marks basic questions:
1. right handed?
4. carbon steel?
5. yo or wa, does not metter. I have both.
6. Budget USD 170.
7. I Do you know how to sharpen.
After A LOT of reading, I am considering the Masamoto HC, the Misono Swedish and intrigued with the Masakage Mizu. What do you recomend from these or other knives?
Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:02 pm
Between the Misono Swedish and Masamoto HC, I'd probably go with the Masamoto, although the Misono might be a little lighter overall in weight.
If you wanted an alternative to the Misono Swedish, you can save a little bit more and go after a Masazumi 210. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/masazumi3.html
It's the same steel and has very similar action as well. OOTB edge wasn't all that, but I steepened one side to 10 degrees and the other is around 15, but sharpened 80/20 right hand bias. It takes a really nice edge and cuts great too. Honestly, don't know why I don't recommend it more.
Differences between Masamoto HC and Masazumi? The Masamoto is a little more robust and has a little bit better steel. The Masamoto is a little bit taller as well. From what I can remember, the Masazumi is going to be a touch thinner overall.
Between the them all: Masamoto has best steel and wear resistance, heaviest, tallest. Masazumi and Misono are pretty much tied (profiles aside) with better fit and finish on the Misono. So I think you should make your decision based on profile between the Masazumi and the Misono.
Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:16 pm
Tanaka Sekiso 210mm gyuto or Richmond AS laser 210mm gyuto (a little above your budget, but worth it!); I have the 240mm versions of both and love them both! Excellent performance, edge taking and holding, great cutters, too. My first Japanese knife was a Kikuichi Elite Carbon 240mm and it took and held a wicked edge, but the steel was a little more reactive/smelly until I got a good patina on it. Fujiwara 210mm carbon is a nice budget choice as is the 210mm Artifex in 52100, but I would thin out the Artifex a bit.
The Masazumi sounds nice as well as the Masamoto, maybe Tetsuhiro would be another option for a clad blade?
Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:08 pm
What about the richmonds addict 52100 or ultimatum with same alloy?
Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:31 am
The Addict and Ultimatum are nice, but they are a little thicker behind the edge. The Addict 2 is a 240mm and the Ultimatum is a 245mm IIRC; they don't come in 210mm size.
Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:11 pm
52100 is one of quite a few "best" carbon alloys. It's extremely well suited for "single steel" construction. Compared to the other high performing carbons, 52100 is a little tougher and consequently harder wearing than most and more stain resistant than many. It may not have the ultimate edge taking potential of -- say -- White #1; but if you're a good sharpener you can get it extremely sharp, and if you're not, you can't. Don't make too much out of specific alloy identity.
With that out of the way: The Addict and Ultimatum have different personalities.
The actual weight difference between a 240mm Addict and and an Ultimatum is only about 0.7oz, with the Addict at around 6.4 oz, and the Ultimatum at around 7.1oz. The Addict balances more neutrally, and that effects the perceived weight difference, with the Addict feeling relatively lighter than you'd expect just looking at the numbers.
It takes awhile to get used to the Ultimatum. However once you do, the Ultimatum, by virtue of its more streamlined profile and better "rocker" is more agile.
If all you ever want to do is push cut, you'll probably like the Addict's profile better, because it's flatter. The Ultimatum's profile is almost identical to Sabatier's -- in other words, perfect.
The Ultimatum's right-face grind is more convexed than the Addict's. The idea is to make the knife less sticky. It probably makes a small difference, but I'm a lefty. An artifact of the complex grind was that I received my Ultimatum with some tool marks on the right face. It doesn't seem to be uncommon, in that other people who've handled the Ultimatum imagined that the tool marks are evidence of an over grind -- which they are not. However they are a cosmetic blemish which could have and should have been polished out.
The Ultimatum is stiffer, and -- I think -- more versatile. It's also a bit thicker "behind the edge" than the Addict. But that's not a bad thing. It makes for a very robust and durable knife which can -- for instance -- trim packer cut ribs down to St Louis style as prep; portion them when they're q'd; but without any particular tendency to wedge when you want to brunoise a ton of shallots for mignonette.
As I said before, it's a wa-Sabatier, lighter, and made from a significantly better alloy. If there's a drawback there, I'm not seeing it.
Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:31 pm
ATTENTION: There will be no more "tool marks" on Ultimatums as I will personally be refinishing every knife in addition to everything I was already doing. Thank you.
Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:23 pm
so which has the profile closer to my Kono HD, the Addict or the Utimatum?
Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:05 am
DHM <> Which Kono HD would help...
Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:34 am
Sorry, kono HD2 270mm
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