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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 488
Basically, with Adam's suggestion in mind, my goal is to remove the bottom 2-3 mm of blade, so that the currently existing bevel on the flat back side of the knife is gone.
As I picture the process in my mind (I have 27 knives to sharpen first) I will use an Atoma 140 and hold the knife at an angle that is more obtuse than the final angle, i.e. the angle that will be on the knife when I return it to the owner. I think this will make the process of removing the unwanted metal faster.

Then, once that is done I will decrease the angle to match the blade road, and then grind/sharpen as I would normally, i.e. from the Shinogi Line down to the edge. (It's not laminated so I don't need to sharpen from the Shinogi Line to the lamination point where the two metals would have met and then from there to the Edge)

The other option is to grind the metal away in the first phase on a belt sander, undoubtedly faster but I will have to see how good I am at holding the knife at a constant angle.

I think the Yanagiba will be salvagable.......keep in mind that this entire process is new to me, it's a unique opportunity actually.

I'm terrified :)


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Arroyo Grande, California
Looks like the previous person who ruined this blade needs to replace it! They need to learn to do a little research before sharpening... i just cant beleive that... eager to see the results

.....4min.... good god...


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 488
Rasagabriel, FYI the previous sharpening was done by a professional sharpening business here where I live, basically my competition. When I first opened my business I was worried about it, how it would impact my business. That was two years ago, and now, in fact they are the best that has ever happened to me in regards to my business. It is shocking some of the results I get to see and fix.
Anyway, it wasn't a single person, it was the worker on shift that day that ran the knife through the grinders.......just doing his/her job.


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 2787
Yeah, that's happened to me before too when I worked at Sur La Table.

They offered a free knife sharpening once or twice a year. Someone dropped off a Global yanagi....one of the employees ran it through the Chef's Choice (that's the free sharpening) and then SLT bought a new yanagi when the guy came back to get his knife. :)



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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Vancouver, Canada
@Jack - yanagiba are slightly hollow grounded over their entire back surface. It kinda looks like a very shallow bowl with a flat rim that goes all the way around the perimeter. The hollow grounding is done on large whetstone wheels.

If they put in a large bevel on the back side, to make it double-beveled, that bowl will look like as if it is missing part of it's side and the bevel will be inside the hollow part of the knife.

To restore it back to its original geometry, you will have to ground it flat then put in a hollow ground. Lastly, you need to ground the rim of the back flat. All this is difficult to do with anything but one of those wheels.

In addition, if the yanagiba is kasumi, i. e. consists of harder carbon steel and softer cladding, it might be necessary to take off too much of the carbon steel to make geometry right.

It all depend how much damage was done and sailor's determination and skill. I know whatever Sailor is charging to do these repair is too low :)


Last edited by mckemaus on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: USA... mostly.
Sailor wrote:Melampus, that's a good price for sure, this one was about $290.00 or so.


I really didn't get that good a price; rather he got raped for his Henckels... :|



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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 488
To restore back to original geometry, you have ground it flat then put in the hollow ground. Lastly, ground the rim of the back flat. All this is difficult to do with anything but one of those water wheel.

In addition, if the yanagiba is kasumi, i. e. consist of harder carbon steel and softer cladding, it might be necessary to take off too much of the carbon steel to make geometry right.



Like I said, the Yanagi-ba is likely not salvagable

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 2757
Location: CT
Wow, that is horrible!!

So this is a mono steel, flat back Usuba then? What belt sander do you have? I would be tempted to split the difference. Flat grind the back at a slight angle to get rid of most of the back bevel and then flat or convex grind the blade road to get it back. Variable speed is a wonderful thin on a belt sander as well!


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:16 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 488
Thanks for the reply and advice taz. I have a Veil 1X42 single speed BS. (yes mono steel flat back.)
I started the process tonight and I'm not liking my work so far, fun quickly turned to frustration. I used an Atoma 140 followed to grind away part of the front bevel, raised a massive burr on the back and then removed that. The back bevel (that is not supposed to exist) is still there though, but diminished in size.
So then I went to the Blade Road, I marked the entire face of the blade road with a sharpie and then started on a Shapton Glass 500. Difficult to remove the entire sharpie marks, high spots and low spots make it very hard to have a uniform surface so I need to work more on this part so that I can get it to look good. No issue at all getting the blade sharp, that is the easy part.
So tomorrow I am going to try the belt sander approach and do exactly what taz is saying. Once I get that Blade Road flat I can then go back to the stones and get it polished. As I said, sharpening the Usuba is not going to be an issue, I want to return it to the chef looking good as well. The ugly gouged bevels are gone, my challenge now is having a uniformly polished blade road.


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 488
Well here are some After shots, not completely done, some more polishing and sharpening to do but that will be easy. Definitely not perfect by any stretch but I have reached my limits on this one. The edge itself is quite nice, very sharp which undoubtedly is inherent in single beveled blades. The Blade Road was difficult, makes me wonder if all blade roads will be like this, i.e. not perfectly flat. However, it does look better than it did a few days ago, IMO.

Image

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I could probably spend a week on it and still not be completely satisfied. This is the first time the the Usuba has been sharpened by hand though and the first time the Blade Road has received any attention. It's sharp, the Chef is happy. I'm moving on to the next abused knife

It goes without saying that I appreciate your advice.


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