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 Post subject: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:08 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:10 pm
Posts: 4
I've read through previous answers, and strangely enough, each poster seems to have settled on a different set of candidates before even asking what to get.

Some background: I'm a home cook. I've used a 10" French carbon chef's knife for years. I also have a Japanese petty which I like (but it's too long to substitute for my regular parer), a very heavy carbon deba (which I never use, because I don't really know how), and a Masamoto KS carbon yanagiba (which I bought many years ago in Japan when it was much cheaper). I ***love*** the edge on the yanagiba, but don't use it much because a yanagiba is pretty specialized and anyway I'm always worried that I'll wreck it -- I once didn't wipe it down carefully enough, and a droplet of water left a rust nick on the edge (now repaired).... Last year, I was given a Shun Ken Onion cleaver. Though I don't like its size, shape, thickness, or weight, I find myself using it surprisingly often because the edge is much better than my chef's knife.

So now I'm looking for a chef's knife with the edge of the Masamoto KS but not so finicky.

Having read various forums, it sounds like a carbon or semi-stainless 240mm gyuto is what I'm looking for.

My preferences: I am right handed, and have a rather large hand. I steel my western knives regularly and sharpen with a DMT Green diamond stone (9µm) + a finer waterstone; I am moderately good at it (but I should watch the CKTG videos and buy some supplies). I push cut to slice, and rock for final chopping of small things. I like carbon and have no problem with patina, but apparently I'm not quite careful enough for Masamoto's white steel. I am accustomed to a western handle for my chef's knife and prefer it large. I do like the rustic aesthetic of some Japanese knives, but I am not willing to sacrifice performance or pay extra for it. I don't care if the knife is factory-made or artisan-made: I'm drawn to the romance of the artisan, but to the consistency of the factory. No dragons, thanks. I'd like the knife to be sharp out of the box. I'd like the knife to be quite stiff, but still thin. I'm willing to pay up to $200 or a bit more if necessary.

Some knives that have been suggested along those lines include:

* Masamoto HC or CT (what's the difference?)
* Moritaka
* Hiromoto
* Tanaka
* Kikuichi TKC (looks overpriced compared to the others...)
... and the list goes on and on! Masazumi, Masahiro, Misono, ... how does one choose?

Out of stock is OK, I can wait a few weeks if necessary.

Oh, and I should really upgrade my Victorinox parer one of these days. Something 3", thin and sharp -- MAC?

-s


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 572
Moritaka French KS gyuto. I would love to get a 210 in this unit...but if you like 240/250...it's a beautiful profile.
+ you cannot beat Aogami Super Blue. 8-)

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritakagyuto.html



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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:19 am
Posts: 45
Moritaka makes a great knife, their Supreme 240 Gyuto is just over $200 and worth every cent— I think you'll enjoy the Aogami Super Steel a lot (I've got a Takeda Gyuto with the same steel and love it), plus the kuro-uchi cladding, while giving it that awesome rustic look, should help you with upkeep.

Masakage would be another recommendation I would make. I just got one of their Shimo petties and am already smitten, but their Yuki line is clad in stainless which, again, should help with maintenance.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
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Location: CT
I love my Tanaka Sekiso Damascus 240mm gyuto!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 294
Location: NE
There's many options for gyuto in the sub $200 range. One that stands out is handle type; Japanese or western style? If it doesn't matter, I would recommend trying:
Fernandez knives--> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shfekn.html
Sakai Yusuke--> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sakaiyusuke.html
Suisin Inox 240--> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suisingyuto1.html
It's hard to find a knife that is both stiff and thin trading one attribute for the other. These three are a mix of carbon, stainless and handle types. Sorry if this post is counterproductive in narrowing your selection. There's just so much good stuff out there! I threw in the Suisin as a suggestion below budget. Maybe there's something that meets all your criteria under $150? Good knife at 240mm.

It may be a while until Richmond paring knives are back in stock but worth the wait. I sanded my parer handle for better contour. For the money it's hard to beat and could be sharpened very thin behind the edge.
Here's one in 52100--> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar80pe52ca.html

+1 for Tanaka


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Location: Kentucky
sophist wrote:Oh, and I should really upgrade my Victorinox parer one of these days. Something 3", thin and sharp -- MAC?
Unless your just looking to upgrade to something more "exotic", Victorinox is a great paring knife for the money.



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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:13 pm
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Location: CT
Yeah, the Richmond Artifex Petty's are nice, 80mm blade, very thin. I have some in 52100 and AEB-L here; I ordered 3 of each when they came out!


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:10 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:10 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks for the various suggestions! Very interesting, though I'm not sure I understand the *rationale* for recommending X. It's interesting to know that someone loves X, but it would be helpful to know what they're comparing it to.

Re Aogami Super, is it as reactive as White steel? I'd think that if the edge will pit from a stray droplet of water, the stainless cladding won't help....

Re the Victorinox parer, it's very good, but the edge on my petty is much better... but the petty is too long to be good for paring.

I'll be interested to hear Mark Richmond's recommendations for the gyuto, the parer, and for stones --does a 9µm diamond benchstone fit into a waterstone system, or is there some incompatibility?

BTW, I seem to recall that a few years ago, there was a Web knife vendor who would send you knives "on approval" -- that is, you could order 5 knives, and return 4 after trying them on some real onions and tomatoes and deciding which one you wanted (and if you liked none, you'd pay some nominal fee). Is my memory tricking me? Or did that vendor end up having too many problems with that policy...?

-s


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:16 am 
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Location: CT
The Tanaka is a stiff gyuto. Spine isn't super thin, but the convex grind gets very thin behind the edge and just cuts beautifully; it outcuts almost every other knife I have. It does have a Wa style handle, but it is nicely done and well sized. It has blue carbon steel, but isn't as reactive as white steel. I've been using it as a home cook since August and have stropped it 5 times now; it still sticks into the cutting board after I strop it.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon gyuto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm
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Location: NE
sophist wrote:Thanks for the various suggestions! Very interesting, though I'm not sure I understand the *rationale* for recommending X. It's interesting to know that someone loves X, but it would be helpful to know what they're comparing it to.

The 3 suggested would all be thin, and would work with your current sharpening setup. I wasn't sure if you had commited to carbon. Stainless knives could be tougher and take a little more abuse from hard cutting boards like polyethylene. What kind of cutting board do you use? If you're using wood it will give you longer edge life.

I don't think there is incompatability with your current stones. They should work fine. You could add a high grit stone if you go for white and blue steels.

There's video reviews of some knives that can be found here on the forum and on the cktg website.
Hope this helps.

videos-f7.html
new-arrivals-f9.html


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