Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:46 am
It seems for the most part, the accepted norm is a 1K ish stone followed by a 5k ish stone for Gyutos. I've got em and it creats a great edge, however there are a thousand ways to skin a cat as the saying goes.
I'd love to hear about your edges and what you like about them.
At the moment, I'm liking an edge I get from sharpening on a King 1.2k followed by stropping on kangaroo leather loaded with 1.5 micron CBN ( about 12K grit equivalent ).
The King 1.2 leaves a relatively fine tooth for its grit rating ( I suspect it closer to a 2K then a 1.2k ) and the CBN 1.5 mic sharpens those teeth up nicely.
What I like about the edge is it cuts well and has good feedback in the cut.
Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:37 am
BRANWELL <> All depends on the knife/steel/application for me, but my preferred everyday finish on hard steel Gyutos is the Yaginoshima with a naked cordovan stropping around 24 to 27 degrees included +/-. I'm not going to regurgitate the typical yada-yada-toothy-polished BS; it's an edge that does everything... and superbly well. Thing is though it's a disgustingly sharp edge. Opinions vary, but I strongly believe there is such a thing as too sharp. I run high end lower volume kitchens so I'm awarded the advantage of not having to regularly process hundreds of pounds of product, but when I do - I'm not too fond of an edge like this. In said situation, I rather enjoy a Rika finish w/a 1µ diamond balsa stropping around 26 to 29 degrees included +/- to blast through cases of product. It allows a razor edge off the strop that transitions into a nice working edge, but it's not so damn sharp that you have to entertain hyper focus on the board.
Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:57 am
I like to use more stones than strops. I have a like new kitayama stone I was going to sell because I never really liked it but for some reason I felt like giving it another chance. Now I like it and use it in conjunction with a 1k stone, surprisingly it will about polish out all the 1k marks with very little effort but the edge keeps a nice toothy bite. it also does a good job of removing the burr so I don't really need to strop.
I do similar with the Naniwa Omura 150 and Naniwa 2k green brick. In most cases the green brick will remove all the scratches but the edge gets wildly sharp with a bite to the edge you normally don't get from using the green brick after something finer like a 1k stone.
Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:15 pm
With about a dozen new compounds on the way from ken I am going to be experimenting quite a lot. Right now I finish up on a shapton 8k and strop on nanocloth with .25micron poly. Hair whittling but still bitey.
Cant wait to play with some CBN and more Polycrystalline.
Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:04 pm
I have a few different stones/strops, but all I've been using lately are the Belgians(Blue Whetstone and Coticule) and a charged Chromium Oxide strop...and sometimes my pant leg. I also have a cheap king 1k/6k that I use on my Henckel.
But in all seriousness...the Henckel, being stainless...with all that chromium...needs a 1k to do anything to it.
It's bloody hard to sharpen compared to Japanese carbon. Way harder. On my first knives (when I was just learning to sharpen) I chose to grind a new edge that was around 15 degrees...both sides.
My Fujiyama came with the regular Japanese edge. Essentially the bevel simply runs into a point...but there was a very tiny micro bevel. I decided to keep that little micro bevel...but spend some time to make it really good. I also opted to make it very slightly asymmetrical towards the right...for kicks. My sharpening style directly comes from what learned when I was into straight razors, but I eventually gave up on straights...and went back to econo pack bics (too much work). What I learned from sharpening straights I brought to knives.
Width of edge (right side):
The way I see things now (with the Fujiyama), the smaller the edge and the less it's on the stones....the better.
Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:36 am
Here's an alternative edge for you:
My wife and I were at our son/daughter-in-law/grandkids new home yesterday. I brought some mill (bastard) files to sharpen his lawnmower blade, which went well. The blade was in pretty good shape.
They have some el-crapo made in China knives that had completely lost their edge. You know - when you can look directly at the edge head-on and actually see the edge plainly in the light. Just for the heck of it, I tried the medium mill file on their paring knife and actually got a decent edge on it. I gave it a few swipes on their grooved steel and some stropping on newsprint over a granite counter top. Came out pretty well - talk about a toothy edge!
I tried the same on their Santoku (even duller). It took a while - that steel is crap, but it seemed pretty wear resistant. I didn't get a great edge, but it's enough until I bring some stones to their house. We'll eventually get them into some decent steel. Good steel sharpens so much more easily that whatever it is that's in their knives.
Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:11 pm
Holy poop Steve, that is an alternative edge.
The Belgian blues have always interested me.
Can they be compared to any of the well know water stones for feel and cutting speed?
Made dinner tonight with a knife sharpened on a Ume 1k followed by a stropping on a meara with cbn 1.5 in the slurry..... Awesome....... Soooo many edges, so little time.
Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:13 pm
Branwell . . . now we are talking the 1K Ume is (IMO) a great feeder stone to the naturals. I currently have been getting really awesome edges on my JK's using the Latte/Ume (depending on the edge I am sharpening) and working a Tajima, Mera, and Yaginoshima into the mix before stropping.
There is something about the edge that has actually caused me to neglect my most prized (and expensive) stone the Nakayama. Not that I am anywhere ready to stop there, but I am just saying that I love the edge with the progression.
I also like the experimentation of a cbn slurry on a stone . . . far out, man
Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:29 am
branwell wrote: Can they be compared to any of the well know water stones for feel and cutting speed?
I like them because they cut well with slurry (being 20-30 percent garnet) and they last forever, unlike most synthetics.
Additionally, they have a beautiful grain. A natural work of wonder from nature.
Once slurry has been generated on them a few times, they smooth down and are joy to use.
I nearly like my Belgians more than my knives. If you use them sparingly, you could probably pass them on as an heirloom.
Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:13 am
Am I the only one that uses a Norton Coarse/Fine India on the kitchen knives and calls it good?
Ok, you all know that's not true, but for the generic kitchen knives I've been using a 220/1000 grit King stone, no stropping, and that takes care of the main knives no problem.
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