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 Post subject: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 161
Location: Northern Virginia
Hi Guys,

It seems for the most part, the accepted norm is a 1K ish stone followed by a 5k ish stone for Gyutos. I've got em and it creats a great edge, however there are a thousand ways to skin a cat as the saying goes.

I'd love to hear about your edges and what you like about them.

At the moment, I'm liking an edge I get from sharpening on a King 1.2k followed by stropping on kangaroo leather loaded with 1.5 micron CBN ( about 12K grit equivalent ).

The King 1.2 leaves a relatively fine tooth for its grit rating ( I suspect it closer to a 2K then a 1.2k ) and the CBN 1.5 mic sharpens those teeth up nicely.

What I like about the edge is it cuts well and has good feedback in the cut.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:37 pm 
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BRANWELL <> All depends on the knife/steel/application for me, but my preferred everyday finish on hard steel Gyutos is the Yaginoshima with a naked cordovan stropping around 24 to 27 degrees included +/-. I'm not going to regurgitate the typical yada-yada-toothy-polished BS; it's an edge that does everything... and superbly well. Thing is though it's a disgustingly sharp edge. Opinions vary, but I strongly believe there is such a thing as too sharp. I run high end lower volume kitchens so I'm awarded the advantage of not having to regularly process hundreds of pounds of product, but when I do - I'm not too fond of an edge like this. In said situation, I rather enjoy a Rika finish w/a 1µ diamond balsa stropping around 26 to 29 degrees included +/- to blast through cases of product. It allows a razor edge off the strop that transitions into a nice working edge, but it's not so damn sharp that you have to entertain hyper focus on the board.



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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:57 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 am
Posts: 920
I like to use more stones than strops. I have a like new kitayama stone I was going to sell because I never really liked it but for some reason I felt like giving it another chance. Now I like it and use it in conjunction with a 1k stone, surprisingly it will about polish out all the 1k marks with very little effort but the edge keeps a nice toothy bite. it also does a good job of removing the burr so I don't really need to strop.

I do similar with the Naniwa Omura 150 and Naniwa 2k green brick. In most cases the green brick will remove all the scratches but the edge gets wildly sharp with a bite to the edge you normally don't get from using the green brick after something finer like a 1k stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 6:39 pm
Posts: 258
With about a dozen new compounds on the way from ken I am going to be experimenting quite a lot. Right now I finish up on a shapton 8k and strop on nanocloth with .25micron poly. Hair whittling but still bitey.

Cant wait to play with some CBN and more Polycrystalline.



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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 624
I have a few different stones/strops, but all I've been using lately are the Belgians(Blue Whetstone and Coticule) and a charged Chromium Oxide strop...and sometimes my pant leg. I also have a cheap king 1k/6k that I use on my Henckel. :) But in all seriousness...the Henckel, being stainless...with all that chromium...needs a 1k to do anything to it. :? It's bloody hard to sharpen compared to Japanese carbon. Way harder. On my first knives (when I was just learning to sharpen) I chose to grind a new edge that was around 15 degrees...both sides.

My Fujiyama came with the regular Japanese edge. Essentially the bevel simply runs into a point...but there was a very tiny micro bevel. I decided to keep that little micro bevel...but spend some time to make it really good. I also opted to make it very slightly asymmetrical towards the right...for kicks. My sharpening style directly comes from what learned when I was into straight razors, but I eventually gave up on straights...and went back to econo pack bics (too much work). What I learned from sharpening straights I brought to knives.

Right side:

Image

Left side:

Image

Width of edge (right side):

Image

The way I see things now (with the Fujiyama), the smaller the edge and the less it's on the stones....the better.



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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Here's an alternative edge for you:

My wife and I were at our son/daughter-in-law/grandkids new home yesterday. I brought some mill (bastard) files to sharpen his lawnmower blade, which went well. The blade was in pretty good shape.

They have some el-crapo made in China knives that had completely lost their edge. You know - when you can look directly at the edge head-on and actually see the edge plainly in the light. Just for the heck of it, I tried the medium mill file on their paring knife and actually got a decent edge on it. I gave it a few swipes on their grooved steel and some stropping on newsprint over a granite counter top. Came out pretty well - talk about a toothy edge!

I tried the same on their Santoku (even duller). It took a while - that steel is crap, but it seemed pretty wear resistant. I didn't get a great edge, but it's enough until I bring some stones to their house. We'll eventually get them into some decent steel. Good steel sharpens so much more easily that whatever it is that's in their knives.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:11 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:44 am
Posts: 161
Location: Northern Virginia
Holy poop Steve, that is an alternative edge. :)

The Belgian blues have always interested me.
Can they be compared to any of the well know water stones for feel and cutting speed?

Made dinner tonight with a knife sharpened on a Ume 1k followed by a stropping on a meara with cbn 1.5 in the slurry..... Awesome....... Soooo many edges, so little time. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:13 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 am
Posts: 211
Location: Austin, TX
Branwell . . . now we are talking the 1K Ume is (IMO) a great feeder stone to the naturals. I currently have been getting really awesome edges on my JK's using the Latte/Ume (depending on the edge I am sharpening) and working a Tajima, Mera, and Yaginoshima into the mix before stropping.

There is something about the edge that has actually caused me to neglect my most prized (and expensive) stone the Nakayama. Not that I am anywhere ready to stop there, but I am just saying that I love the edge with the progression.

I also like the experimentation of a cbn slurry on a stone . . . far out, man :)!



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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 624
branwell wrote: Can they be compared to any of the well know water stones for feel and cutting speed?


Not sure.
I like them because they cut well with slurry (being 20-30 percent garnet) and they last forever, unlike most synthetics.
Additionally, they have a beautiful grain. A natural work of wonder from nature.

Once slurry has been generated on them a few times, they smooth down and are joy to use.
I nearly like my Belgians more than my knives. If you use them sparingly, you could probably pass them on as an heirloom.



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 Post subject: Re: Alternative edges.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:52 pm
Posts: 11
Am I the only one that uses a Norton Coarse/Fine India on the kitchen knives and calls it good?

Ok, you all know that's not true, but for the generic kitchen knives I've been using a 220/1000 grit King stone, no stropping, and that takes care of the main knives no problem.


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